Reducing engine oil temperatures on track

[surrey86 352]

During the track days I did last year I found the oil temperatures needed more monitoring than I'd like. Both were in ambient temperatures at or below 10 degrees C yet I was easily hitting mid 120's partway through a 20 minute session. I could do shorter sessions but I find I'm only just getting into it after 10 minutes so my goal is to make the car comfortably do 20 minutes without concern, without a negative affect on daily driving.

A couple options seem to be a low temperature coolant thermostat (£50-£80 depending on whether you trust the Cosworth name or Mishimoto lifetime warranty?), or an oil cooler.

The car has over a year of warranty left and our local dealer has form for being an arse (charging main dealer labour rates for investigations if they can deem it to be related to a mod) if they're aware of modifications. 

Will a lower temperature coolant thermostat have a real affect on oil temperatures - or is this just pissing in the wind and I should go straight for a cooler.... or any other alternatives?

Thanks for any advice

[Deacon 1357]

I don't think the thermostat will do much for what you want. An oil cooler of some description would be your best bet.

[Lauren 2259]

A lower opening thermostat will make no differnece at all. 

Likely an oil cooler is your best bet. I've seen mine up to 125C (the only time I measured it on a 35C day at Donington), but I keep my sessions to 10 minutes. I get though that after four laps or so, the tyres tend to stabilise and you can play, so I understand the point of doing longer sessions. As Jeff said, an oil cooler is the only way, or just ease off on the straights, but it will still be around 120C or so. 

[surrey86 352]

I've got a P3 Cars vent gauge so I can see what's happening all of the time, it's a bit of an eye opener.

To be honest with my current ability level and Primacy tyres, I felt enough of a rolling road block as it was on the LOT day with all the Exiges & Elises etc, without short shifting! I do appreciate it will help and I did ease off on the straights when it was getting up to 128 but it's not ideal. Javelin days at Bedford are a different kettle of fish as the standard is that much slower, but I want to be doing more varied tracks this year.

Sounds like the cooler is the way to go.

[Mike 458]

I've got an oil cooler on order (same as the Jeff's got on order) purely because of that LoT at Donny. In the afternoon I couldn't really do more than 1 proper lap without the oil temperature hitting 125c. Think the only I did was chasing the McLaren that was out there

[Church 209]

One should also choose which oilcoolers to get. OEM water to oil, or with oil rads. As for thermostat alone, while it's simplest/cheapest, it simply doesn't improve things enough, if goal is long sessions ability.

From what is available currently my primary choices for oil cooling probably would be forester oem alike water-oil cooler, or if step further, then JR rad that has integrated oil rad section. Somehow not liking much all those separate oil rads in front of main one airflow through rad/air pressure drop efficiency wise, even more so, if mounted to bottom of front bumper, where in my eyes it's easy to puncture/damage it.

P.S.

With long track sessions in mind first thing i'd improve would be brakes, everything else with less priority. Hot oil .. at most it may make ecu to cut power a bit. Boiled/faded brakes may be a bit more dangerous thing on track . Hot oil temps? One can see those even when iddling in traffic jam on hot day.

P.P.S.

ft86club's basic bolt-on mods guide has also oil cooler section with links.

[surrey86 352]

Erm brake cooling was improved months ago (and is a completely different subject?). I've more to do but that's not what I'm asking here.

I don't actually get hot oil temperatures idling in traffic jams, the coolant keeps it under control. What method of cooling are you using Church?

[Varelco 211]

Think this thread is pretty self explanatory really. Hot oil = oil cooler. A cooler thermostat is pointless. The Subaru Forester XT oil cooler which Church is trying to refer to is an OEM subaru part which connects to the coolant system. It sits under your oil filter and uses engine coolant to heat/cool the oil. It's compact and self contained, no oil lines or air heat exchanger. 

[will300 812]

Worth a read for anyone looking at Oil Cooler, http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114293 however I suspect most of you already know this.

[Church 209]

mourice: what method? - none . It's mostly daily driver for me, i'm not going to track very often and it's more for fun then competitive results, and very hot temps in summer here in Latvia are rare. But i noticed reported oil temps issues by those that track much more and even more so in countries with much hotter weather on average. Yes, including idling in traffic

I'm limiting myself to usually to ~10min sessions (and as i wrote before, mostly due brakes, that started seriously underperform/lost after 15m, requiring more bleeding speed via drifting instead of braking, smoking when i went off track, so that was first and main limit i hit and that kept me from going longer. Not temps, not power, not tires, not suspension, not own tiredness. Brakes).

After all, my car is still mostly stock performance or suspension wise, including brakes. They are very good relative to what many other cars have as stockers .. but not for a long :). Apart from better fluid & pads, better tires & more negative camber with bolts and LCA rest is stock. And more then sufficient for me to get my share of fun at track :). That doesn't keep me from keeping reading multiple forums on different parts that others are choosing, why, what impact, what alternatives, what price/performancy, what people that are way more truck junkies then me are choosing, .. that will ease choice for my future upgrades.

For now for future i'm planning: 1) velox brake air ducts to squeeze more out of stock brakes (will be kept for street-legality by local rules ) + moving up to more aggressive compound pads + steel braided lines, 2) upgrades like closer placed steering wheel for more laidback seating position (for more headroom with helmet on) & accelerator pedal easing heal & toe, 3) OFT for slight engine tune-up (not as much for power, which i don't feel limited by lack of as it is, as rather slight redline rise and less drastic power cut, more engine longetivity & economy and so on ..) + oil catch can, 4) maybe some struts or coilover upgrade (something from Billstein/KW/RCE/Tein offerings), 5) mentioned forester or JR rad oil cooler. If you noticed, i placed oil cooling last :).

I'd be glad to change (1.) with more capable for track brakes like eg. Essex APR Sprint kit & (3.) with top catless header+ecutek tune, but there goes back issue of local street legality rules . Need to change back to stock and then back to better brakes & header due MOT inspections every year is not something i'd want or willing to do for slight power gain. Luckily in many other countries inspection passing rules are more laid back.

[Bfranklyn86 52]

11 hours ago, will300 said:

Worth a read for anyone looking at Oil Cooler, http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114293 however I suspect most of you already know this.

That was good info, thanks Will.

looks an OEM oil to water cooler could be the way forward....... as long as people who run these don't see their engine coolant temps going too high on track sessions. @Ade did you notice any difference in coolant temps on track?

 

[Kodename47 446]

34 minutes ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

Looks an OEM oil to water cooler could be the way forward....... as long as people who run these don't see their engine coolant temps going too high on track sessions. @Ade did you notice any difference in coolant temps on track?

 

The Forrester system doesn't seem to keep peak temps down for FI cars. Ade's system is a better solution as the exchanger core works better. That's what I was looking at doing when funds allow.

[Bfranklyn86 52]

1 hour ago, knightryder said:

The Forrester system doesn't seem to keep peak temps down for FI cars. Ade's system is a better solution as the exchanger core works better. That's what I was looking at doing when funds allow.

Thanks for that. Roughly what kind of funds (ball park) are we talking?

[surrey86 352]

@Ade has a shopping list on the other forum that comes out as just over £500. It looks the best solution, if a tiny bit close to the aux belt although I've no idea how strong those pipes are.

[Kodename47 446]

3 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

Thanks for that. Roughly what kind of funds (ball park) are we talking?

About the same as any decent standard oil cooler setup, as above really.

[Rich 378]

I'm very tempted by a setup like Ade's. I'm wondering if the Forester oil cooler would be sufficient for an NA engine though. It looks like it would cost around £200 for the parts do that's a decent saving.

[Mark@Abbey M/S 235]

Keeping the water temp cooler will help oil temp but not enough in this situation.

Running a water/oil cooler set up can cause issues with coolant temps rising due to the oil temperature being controlled by the lower water temp but I am sure Ade has reported his car suffers no issues with raised Water temps.. I doubt the Forester set up will be man enough to keep a GT86/BRZ motor oil cool on the circuit thou as the heat exchanger is very small in size.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lauren 2259]

Seems more sensible to fit an oil to air cooler, with a rad up front and oil lines taken off the sandwich plate. Tried and tested etc. 19 row ought to be plenty. 

[Ade 517]

Sorry only just seen this. Few things to say about the subject.

The cossy thermostat did lower my oil temps a bit. Both when hammering it and when cruising. Roughly 5C.

A originally designed an air to air (see my thread) but I had few proplems with air to air cooling:

1) placing the cooler rad infront the intercooler lowers the effectiveness of the intercooler. There isnt much space behind the fog lights either. Hks have pulled it off but haven't inspected one installed on a car to give an opinion. Mine was too snug for me to be to happy about it.

Having said that. @DanJ has something pretty awsome planned for his air to air and I ook forward to see it.

2) even with a 100C mocal thermostat the "trickle" flow still cools the oil a tad, but I will say, so does the oil to water if you also have a low temp thermostat as the water sits at 80C.

3) I couldnt bring myself to be happy with the oil lines routing. Paranoid an oil line will vibrate against something and start to leak over time.

 Why I went oil to water

1 ) I can see all the oil lines from the engine bay for inspection and piece of mind.

2) until the oil is as warm as the water. It effectively heats the oil sonit warms the oil quicker as the water get up to temp much faster.

3) most oem oil coolers these days are oil to water. E.g. the forester oil to water laminova.

Downside is cost though. Mine cost about 600 iirc.

My advice would be go for the forester oil to water if you plan to stay na or the smaller size mocal if you want to do what I have done, as mine was specd for supercharged car. I see about 110C max on track.

I will say my water temps sit a few Cs higher than when I had air to air but still about 85C which is lower than oem.

How that helps.

Cheers

 

[Rich196 103]

All I can say is £500 for a cooler setup or 5k for an engine, choices.

[Ade 517]

On 15/01/2017 at 10:31 AM, maurice said:

@Ade has a shopping list on the other forum that comes out as just over £500. It looks the best solution, if a tiny bit close to the aux belt although I've no idea how strong those pipes are.

The pipes hardly move at all. There is more distance than it looks in the pic though as they sit forward from the belt.

Ive done 6 trackdays this years and apart from a banjo started weeping due to under torque after the 1st trackday its been perfect. I highly recommend using torque lock paint for a visual inspection.

[Ade 517]

Just a point to make. Some people state side have been fitting the forester laminova and connecting the water lines to the throttle body coolant lines. This is not the proper way to install it and will have a limited affect.

You need to install it with a water feed from the block to get enough flow for decent cooling.

[Bfranklyn86 52]

1 hour ago, Ade said:

 

Ive done 6 trackdays this years and apart from a banjo started weeping due to under torque after the 1st trackday its been perfect. I highly recommend using torque lock paint for a visual inspection.

6 trackdays in 2017? 

Ade you really are an enthusiast.

[Ade 517]

1 hour ago, Ade said:  

Ive done 6 trackdays this years and apart from a banjo started weeping due to under torque after the 1st trackday its been perfect. I highly recommend using torque lock paint for a visual inspection.

6 trackdays in 2017? 

Ade you really are an enthusiast.

I wish!

[Rich 378]

3 hours ago, Lauren said:

Seems more sensible to fit an oil to air cooler, with a rad up front and oil lines taken off the sandwich plate. Tried and tested etc. 19 row ought to be plenty. 

My concern with an oil to air cooler is getting the oil warm enough in daily driving. Ade had problems with his not really warming up unless he ragged it with a 99C takeoff plate. A water to oil setup eliminates that issue.

I'm thinking smaller size mocal will be a good bet for my car, that said it's not a huge price difference with the medium one either.