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Nicebiscuit

The Wheels Thread

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33 minutes ago, Varelco said:

^^^ Not true.

If the wheels have a 60 degree taper and the nuts can fit in the recess then there is no you can't use the standard nuts.

I'd have to look at my oem nuts again but the aftermarket ones I got for my wheels stated they couldn't be used on oem wheels due to the taper on the nuts

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I've managed to source a set of second hand Advan racing RC 2 in white (17x7.5j et35) for a very good price.

Looking online these should be a good weight saving compared to stock wheels and slightly wider.

Will be running these with my Tein flex z coilovers and I plan to fit 225/45r17 Michelin pilot sport cups.

Will post pics when they land with me

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In terms of handling and grip what are the benefits from going 17 to 18?? I know on weaker cars it can reduce the performance slightly because of the extra weight or something,or is it just depend on the alloy itself.

Also has anyone got the TRD wheels? If so how heavy is it compared to a different set of 18s or even the stock 17s.

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11 minutes ago, kurosagi01 said:

In terms of handling and grip what are the benefits from going 17 to 18?? I know on weaker cars it can reduce the performance slightly because of the extra weight or something,or is it just depend on the alloy itself.

Also has anyone got the TRD wheels? If so how heavy is it compared to a different set of 18s or even the stock 17s.

If both were the same weight and width then the difference will be minimal, most of the mass will be further out but I doubt you'd notice. Any heavier wheel will increase rotational unsprung weight which will impact turn in and marginally acceleration but whether you actually notice it is debatable and down to how much heavier they are. Go for a good wheel and the weight difference is likely to be minimal.

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Guys having lightweight wheels and tyres isn't just about rotational mass. Its also about how much mass the spring and damper have to control over bumps. Imaging going over a pot hole, as the ground drops away the aim of the spring and damper is to keep weight on the wheel and thus grip. The weight of the control arms, brakes and wheels affect how fast that spring force is able to push the tyre down the ground. The high speed damping also has a huge affect on that.

 

 

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Almost every test done on lightweight wheels vs heavy wheels have the same (or very similar) results, so there are a bunch of facts out there to help with this discussion.

Heavier wheels show consistently better acceleration from a standing start (upwards of half a second faster 0-60 on heavy wheels in the 3 tests I read) but consistently worse lap times (between 2 and 3 seconds slower over a 2 minute lap). All other tests (braking, in gear acceleration, comfort etc.) showed very slight advantages in favour of light wheels, but not really enough to make the results too relevant (100-0mph braking was a 0.1-0.3 seconds difference, 30-70mph in gear acceleration around 0.2 seconds also).

If you're a keen, competitive track driver, lightweight wheels are a proven advantage. If you daily drive your car, sure, the car may feel slightly more nimble, but that comes at a price.

As has been discussed, with the exception of a few, most strong lightweight wheels are forged, and therefore expensive. A cheap lightweight wheel will have the same advantages, but on harsh, potholed British roads, may have issues with build quality. For a road car, the extra money required for a strong lightweight wheel, is possibly more usefully spent elsewhere (better tyres, brakes etc.), but for a track car, there's no arguing that lightweight wheels are the way to go.

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There are middle of the road flow formed wheels such as the OZ HLT, Weds Sport TC105, 720Form ect that are strong and light and not crazy money.

I'd love to see/read that test on wheel weights. 2-3 seconds in a 2 min laps sounds far too extreme from my experience. As does 0.5second 0-60 improvement.  

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8 minutes ago, GT86Owner said:

There are middle of the road flow formed wheels such as the OZ HLT, Weds Sport TC105, 720Form ect that are strong and light and not crazy money.

I'd love to see/read that test on wheel weights. 2-3 seconds in a 2 min laps sounds far too extreme from my experience. As does 0.5second 0-60 improvement.  

You're right, there are cheaper strong wheels, I did say there are some exceptions to the rule :) 

What people need to remember however, is that some people buy wheels because of how they look, rather than buying light wheels for the sake of having light wheels. I'm sure there are some people who search "What are the lightest 17" wheels" when searching for new wheels, whereas another crowd just look through catalogues/websites until they find something they like the look of. For those people, weight isn't everything.

If you want to read the tests, just google search "lightweight wheel test", there are plenty of them. I read 3 random ones off the first page, so I'm sure there are plenty more to dig through.

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1 minute ago, Nicebiscuit said:

Heavy wheels give QUICKER 0-60? Why is that then?

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Popular opinion from people doing the testing (who were equally surprised it has to be said) is that lightweight wheels are more prone to spin, as they have less resistance to the turning force. Heavy wheels are more resistive, meaning they don't spin and just grip.

Remember, this is just what I'm reading from other sites/tests, not my own testing and/or opinion.

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Ah - ok. Might make sense. Interesting, that.

Which I guess would be offset if you were going up a size or two as part of the wheel swap...

Anecdotally - I had noticed mine wheel spins at the drop of a hat now from rest although lateral grip remains as good as ever so there may be something in that...

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Yeah, I would assume going up in size would balance that out. For the most part, people who go lightweight stick at 17" on these cars, so by comparison to the stock wheels, the acceleration from standstill may be slightly worse (assuming the same tyres/conditions of course), but maybe not to the extent in that test.

It's all a compromise anyway. The disadvantages are obvious when it comes to going heavier and bigger in the wheel, but the advantages are pretty clear too. A larger wheel results in a lower profile tyre, therefore less flex in the sidewall. Also, most people who go to 18" go to 8" wide or upwards, which means wider tyres (I know, there are wider 17" wheels, just generalising), and wider tyres results in more lateral grip, better braking etc. so it's just about finding the balance.

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Its a bit of a compromise really. Some of the light wheels arnt to my teste. I used to really like the Enkie RSF5 until I found out how feckin heavy they are.

attachment.php?attachmentid=41231&d=1371

And im not fond of the Enkie RPF1 which are very light and cheap

JPYcfKw.jpg

 

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48 minutes ago, GT86Owner said:

There are middle of the road flow formed wheels such as the OZ HLT, Weds Sport TC105, 720Form ect that are strong and light and not crazy money.

I'd love to see/read that test on wheel weights. 2-3 seconds in a 2 min laps sounds far too extreme from my experience. As does 0.5second 0-60 improvement.  

2 - 3 seconds isn't a lot when you think about it. If lighter wheels can give you 0.2 - 0.3s every braking / acceleration zone, then a dozen of those and you've got 2 - 3s instantly. 

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2-3 seconds is actually a lot IME. In fact it's a huge amount!

I switched from stock to lightweight wheels and I think it makes a big difference to how the car feels. The advantages are everywhere. The only slight downside is that heavier wheels seem to give a better ride, but that's it. 

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18 minutes ago, GT86Owner said:

Its a bit of a compromise really. Some of the light wheels arnt to my teste. I used to really like the Enkie RSF5 until I found out how feckin heavy they are.

attachment.php?attachmentid=41231&d=1371

Do you know what I nearly bought a set of these. I really like the RSF5, then like yourself discovered how heavy they were, and how expensive they were for a gravity cast wheel! I won't buy Enkei wheels, they are overpriced. I can't find anything else like them unfortunately, only Advan AVS Model T5 but these latest versions don't look as good as the original model 5.

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6 minutes ago, Lauren said:

The advantages are everywhere. The only slight downside is that heavier wheels seem to give a better ride, but that's it. 

While true, a worse ride is a lot more than a "slight downside" for daily driven cars. I would take a better ride over fractionally better braking or acceleration for a daily driver any day. You're seeing the advantages of lightweight wheels (sharper response, hard braking and hard in gear acceleration) in less than 5% of your driven mileage on the street, but the advantages of a more comfortable ride are seen in 100% of the mileage you do.

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13 minutes ago, Varelco said:

Do you know what I nearly bought a set of these. I really like the RSF5, then like yourself discovered how heavy they were, and how expensive they were for a gravity cast wheel! I won't buy Enkei wheels, they are overpriced. I can't find anything else like them unfortunately, only Advan AVS Model T5 but these latest versions don't look as good as the original model 5.

I just looked up the weight of these. The 17x7.5's weigh the same as my wheels, except mine are 18x8.5, and mine aren't exactly considered light (around 9.7kg each). That's nuts.

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I'm with Lotus on this... Lighter always better (if you can afford it!). With suspension changes you'd get the ride back too...

Most of what we like about classic cars is simply that EVERYTHING weighs less. My old eighties Saab 900, considered a big solid lump in its day, much to my surprise, weighs less than the 86 - and drove like it... More like a big Mini that a modern family saloon.

What does your AE86 weigh Lauren? Probably about two bags of sugar...

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