Knighty 29 Report post Posted April 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Lauren said: The trouble is, the moment you put aftermarket wheels on a stock car, you will want to lower it. So maybe better to save to get both done. I could barely cope with driving around for a whole three weeks whilst I was waiting for my suspension to be fitted! This is very true, had the same feelings when I put new wheels on the Celica. But the fitment was livable so I never got around to the suspension. 21 minutes ago, Deacon said: A problem is that a lot of the wider, lower offset wheels will need a decent chunk of camber dialled in so that they don't look silly @Knighty I'd definitely get the suspension sorted with the wheels. This makes sense.. Probably a question for the suspension thread really, but sort of applicable to wheels. How much camber becomes too much that it effects handling and drivability? Is it a case of all camber is bad within it's own right? Is it always a case of form > function? Thanks for the help guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted April 12, 2016 @Knighty Due to the suspension design some camber will wear the tyres less than none on these. Mine has run on about 2.5 at the front for over a year. There is very marginal extra wear on the inside edge. Toe will wear the tyres way more than camber. 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted April 12, 2016 Regarding camber. At the front we have a strut with only about 6degrees of castor, so during hard cornering it wears the outside edge of the tyre as the car rolls onto the tyre. Adding a bit of camber can help even out the wear but the side effect is that when you are just driving on the motorway the car is running on the inner edge so will wear thst part out. If you never intended to track the car but like the occasion back road hoon then maybe 1degree camber is enough. 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 2 degrees negative camber on the front doesn't wear the tyres excessively. I have 1.75 on the rear too, again not a problem. It certainly helps the handling and improves turn in. 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 The trouble is, the moment you put aftermarket wheels on a stock car, you will want to lower it. So maybe better to save to get both done. I could barely cope with driving around for a whole three weeks whilst I was waiting for my suspension to be fitted! You say that - but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that my car is going to stay stock height, gaping wheel gaps and all even running 18x8s. There's little enough suspension travel on the road as it is... Not quite decided though... There's no doubt they look better a bit lower but the Toyota issue variants running 18x7.5 wheels still run stock springs... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Nicebiscuit said: You say that - but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that my car is going to stay stock height, gaping wheel gaps and all even running 18x8s. There's little enough suspension travel on the road as it is... Not quite decided though... There's no doubt they look better a bit lower but the Toyota issue variants running 18x7.5 wheels still run stock springs... The Toyota variants on 18x7.5 also run a conservative offset of 46. The problem comes on stock suspension if you go for a wide wheel with a lower offset it ends up looking like a monster truck because the wheels stick out too much without the camber to pull them in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 These are my summer wheels (Rota Titan's in 17x9" et42 fitted with continental sport contact 5's in 235/45/17):- Fitted pic (excuse the state of the car!):- Wheels and tyres together weigh in at 18.1kg compared to 18.7kg for stock. 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Nicebiscuit said: You say that - but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that my car is going to stay stock height, gaping wheel gaps and all even running 18x8s. There's little enough suspension travel on the road as it is... Not quite decided though... There's no doubt they look better a bit lower but the Toyota issue variants running 18x7.5 wheels still run stock springs... The Toyota variants on 18x7.5 also run a conservative offset of 46. The problem comes on stock suspension if you go for a wide wheel with a lower offset it ends up looking like a monster truck because the wheels stick out too much without the camber to pull them in. Oh, yes agreed. Mine are only half an inch wider and a bit less offset, but still quite conservative so I think I'll probably get away with it... A trial fit at the weekend I think before I get some suspension bits ordered... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knighty 29 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 22 hours ago, Deacon said: @Knighty Due to the suspension design some camber will wear the tyres less than none on these. Mine has run on about 2.5 at the front for over a year. There is very marginal extra wear on the inside edge. Toe will wear the tyres way more than camber. 21 hours ago, Ade said: Regarding camber. At the front we have a strut with only about 6degrees of castor, so during hard cornering it wears the outside edge of the tyre as the car rolls onto the tyre. Adding a bit of camber can help even out the wear but the side effect is that when you are just driving on the motorway the car is running on the inner edge so will wear thst part out. If you never intended to track the car but like the occasion back road hoon then maybe 1degree camber is enough. 14 hours ago, Lauren said: 2 degrees negative camber on the front doesn't wear the tyres excessively. I have 1.75 on the rear too, again not a problem. It certainly helps the handling and improves turn in. Thanks guys, really informative posts. I've always avoided running any sort of camber as I've generally always thought of camber as "stance" with the low cars with the huge angles of camber. Never realised that a little negative camber can actually help improve handling. I just thought it was a case of, tyres should be perfectly flat to the road, any camber is bad and will wear tyres prematurely. So I guess I was completely wrong. Good job I asked the question really isn't it? haha thanks! certainly makes me feel a lot more confident in my wheel choice and getting a good set of coilovers. Next thing will be to consult the suspension thread! Probably won't be for a while though, she's just clocked over 8000 miles today so she's still only little. May be a little premature to start swapping out major chassis components. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 More negative camber is all about the handling. Makes a big difference, getting rid of the understeer and the vagueness from a stock front end. Ditto the rear as it allows you to really sharpen up how the car feels and set the car up to how you want it. Stance is where you have a stupid amount of camber like over three degrees etc. I set my car up to handle, it's really nothing to do with 'stance' and all that. 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie_GRMN 177 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 40 minutes ago, Knighty said: Probably won't be for a while though, she's just clocked over 8000 miles today so she's still only little. May be a little premature to start swapping out major chassis components. Pfffft, all of mine was changed at 2500!!! Never too soon 1 Knighty reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Knighty said: Thanks guys, really informative posts. I've always avoided running any sort of camber as I've generally always thought of camber as "stance" with the low cars with the huge angles of camber. Never realised that a little negative camber can actually help improve handling. I just thought it was a case of, tyres should be perfectly flat to the road, any camber is bad and will wear tyres prematurely. yes you want the tyre flat to the road but when you are cornering the tyre would start to move into positive camber if you were set to 0 deg camber so having some negative camber actually brings the tyre flat to the road when cornering hard hence improving the handling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 My track wheels XXR 527 18x8.75 et 35 running 235/40/18 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shiftspark 41 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 16 hours ago, Lauren said: 2 degrees negative camber on the front doesn't wear the tyres excessively. I have 1.75 on the rear too, again not a problem. It certainly helps the handling and improves turn in. I had mine set up at Blink this afternoon to pretty much this , they did mention your set up was the same Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shiftspark 41 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Nicebiscuit said: You say that - but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that my car is going to stay stock height, gaping wheel gaps and all even running 18x8s. There's little enough suspension travel on the road as it is... Not quite decided though... There's no doubt they look better a bit lower but the Toyota issue variants running 18x7.5 wheels still run stock springs... Lowering is a good idea until a slightly high speed bump scrapes the under tray grrrr! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 13, 2016 More negative camber is all about the handling. Makes a big difference, getting rid of the understeer and the vagueness from a stock front end. Ditto the rear as it allows you to really sharpen up how the car feels and set the car up to how you want it. Stance is where you have a stupid amount of camber like over three degrees etc. I set my car up to handle, it's really nothing to do with 'stance' and all that. So what's the trade off then? Presumably there must be 'some' additional tyre wear otherwise it'd surely come from the factory like that. Or is there something else? Everything is a compromise of some sort... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted April 14, 2016 Richard at Blink is an old friend of mine from Bookatrack days! As long as your geo is alright, i.e. the toe is okay, then the tyres don't wear any differently than they did before. I went for the maximum camber I could that wouldn't affect tyre wear. Toe being out seems to be more of a factor with premature tyre wear than camber. So there isn't a trade off as long as you don't go mad with the camber. Factory settings are safe and you have to remember that there is no provision to adjust camber on a stock car. A factory car will tend to understeer. Mine doesn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted April 14, 2016 If you want to adjust front camber on OEM then use the camber bolts, I have a set not being used so if anybody wants them FOC let me know and I can bring them to Japfest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 14, 2016 On that topic, anyone know what camber you end up with dropping the car on conventional lowering springs. I'd assume it makes little difference at the front, but would you end up with a little negative at the rear (all other things being equal?). Not sure how the geometry works at the back... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted April 14, 2016 If mine's anything to go by, you can see here: Abbey Alignment.pdf I can't find original printout from Fensport, but when I had my geo set after lowering springs it was pretty sweet. I returned to OEM springs a while later but didn't get geo set until a couple of weeks ago at Abbey. The rear was way out before adjustment. That would suggest the different springs rather upset the whole shebang. Sorry if I got a bit technical there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted April 16, 2016 The rear camber will increase as you lower it. You need offset bushes for the lower arms. Or adjustable lower arms to correct it to what you want. It will tend to on the rear be slightly more negative camber than you want when you lower it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 16, 2016 As I thought. Well given that I'd only be lowering a little I might suck it and see where I end up before investing in further bits... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted April 17, 2016 Team dynamics 8x18. And took the opportunity to weigh them whilst I had them side by side with the stock wheels. slight weight penalty over stock wheel/tyre combo of 1kg a corner, but considering the size increase from. 7x17 to 8x18 I find that quite acceptable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varelco 211 Report post Posted April 18, 2016 What offset did you go for Nicebiscuit? These are on my shortlist (in Hi power silver) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted April 18, 2016 720form GTF2 18x9 et35 8.4kg 2 Nicebiscuit and Keethos reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
