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DuncanM

225/45/17 tyres?

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5 hours ago, choupolo said:

But am I right in saying Jay’s car isn’t a Blue Edition and has 7.5” wheels? Or the manual is wrong?

No blue edition here. I guess the first print of the manual is wrong.

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6 hours ago, Lauren said:

As I thought. It's only the Blue Edition with Performance Pack that has 7.5" wide wheels. 

Interesting... I just looked this up in my manual.

I have blue series with performance pack.
This is from my manual lol... so it doesn't make it clear at all. It has 3 sizes listed... fun.

IMG-20200926-151404.jpg

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18 hours ago, James- said:

Interesting... I just looked this up in my manual.

I have blue series with performance pack.
This is from my manual lol... so it doesn't make it clear at all. It has 3 sizes listed... fun.

IMG-20200926-151404.jpg

That's just covering all the variables that are current. I had a GT86 hire car in Japan with the 16's and smaller brakes. 17x7 is for stock and 17 x7.5 is PP. 

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Just checked wheels on my 2017 Pro and they are 17 x 7.  I’ve run Maxxis Victra Sport 5 size 225 (215 not available I think) on one wet track day so far and thought they were good.  The price was £183 for four from tyreleader (plus fitting)

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So I had 225/45/17 fitted today... PS4's for around £65 a corner, which was insane value. ATS still have the offer, combined with top cash-back and halifax banking.
They are so much stickier... wow. Big big big difference. Not all positive, if anything the car feels a bit too stuck to the road. haha I know that doesn't sound like a bad thing but funnily enough it feels too safe now. But perhaps that's just as the tyres are brand brand new.

As a whole I'm very happy, the car seems more responsive, faster and honestly going around corners is a blast... because really I didn't have to use my brakes much on the way home at all. Just absolute glued to the tarmac. I think if you don't push your car very hard (I do) you will find these tyres too sticky/too boring. But pushing my car on Lincolnshire backroads just wow...

Also, wheels are confirmed to be 7.5" on performance pack @Lauren I looked at the rims and they also measured them. Interesting comment from ATS Euro was the 215's although recommended were too stretched on my 7.5" rim and funny enough they recommended the 225, as it would happen I ordered 225 anyway... When he put the 225s on he commented how the sidewalls were straight like they were supposed to be. Whereas on the 215s they were too stretched.

Furthermore, the wheel arches are improved. This is on stock springs, and the wheel gap on the front and back is notably different! Very happy overall, just a small negative that the car is "too sticky" haha. But very happy. I'll give it another very spirited drive tomorrow and give you an update for those that are interested in 225s

 

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IMG_20200929_130130.jpg

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A 215 on a 7" wide wheel is absolutely fine, I run a 215 on an 8" wheel, it is still within spec. I think it shows a lack of knowledge in understanding from the tyre fitter to make comments such as that. There would have been no stretch at at all on a 215 with a 7" wide wheel, so i don't get the fitters comments. I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but IME fitting the narrowest tyre within spec with the widest wheel gives the best response. You have increased your profile a little which explains why it fills the arches a bit more. Interestingly I tried a 225 on my 8" wheels and found too much sidewall flex, which would be worse on a 7" wide wheel. 

I find the PS4's a bit grippy, but have to run them for sprinting to be competitive. If you want a tyre that is good but a bit less grip in the future try the Advan Sport V105. Personally I would have stuck with a 215 even though they are more expensive than a 225, for a better steering response and feel. 

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@Lauren you make some interesting points there about tyre fitment. You mention a 215 wide on an 8 inch wide wheel. Can I ask what profile is the tyre and how big is the stretch? Also I’d assume that  stretching that tyre size onto a wheel that wide would increase steering response and feel, but would make a sacrifice to ride quality and NVH? Entirely subjective of course to both function and form. 

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There is some range of tire widths that can fit of specific wheel width.

For example, consider this chart, minimum, optimum, maximum, they all are "safe" to fit.

Going too wide tires for wheel width will add too much extra flex to sidewalls, handling will suffer, not worth doing unless one is fixated on fitting absolutely widest tires one can for whatever reasons. Going too (hella-)stretched also not advisable, as it will make harder to fit tires w/o hacks, provides only arguable looks for stance crowd, and one will increase risks of tire debeading from wheels, big no-no on track. Then there is common preference of many that track their cars, eg. to tend to fit tires with slight stretch, that is still reasonable, yet extra removes some slop from sidewall flex, sharpening up steering (at slight loss of comfort/compliance).

And in this case is i guess tire shop worker generic subjective beliefs of what width goes well and what doesn't.

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10 hours ago, Lauren said:

A 215 on a 7" wide wheel is absolutely fine, I run a 215 on an 8" wheel, it is still within spec. I think it shows a lack of knowledge in understanding from the tyre fitter to make comments such as that. There would have been no stretch at at all on a 215 with a 7" wide wheel, so i don't get the fitters comments. I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but IME fitting the narrowest tyre within spec with the widest wheel gives the best response. You have increased your profile a little which explains why it fills the arches a bit more. Interestingly I tried a 225 on my 8" wheels and found too much sidewall flex, which would be worse on a 7" wide wheel. 

I find the PS4's a bit grippy, but have to run them for sprinting to be competitive. If you want a tyre that is good but a bit less grip in the future try the Advan Sport V105. Personally I would have stuck with a 215 even though they are more expensive than a 225, for a better steering response and feel. 

Very interested in this - 215mm on a 8" wheel should be perfect/square. Assume they fitted okay without stretch.

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10 hours ago, Luke said:

@Lauren you make some interesting points there about tyre fitment. You mention a 215 wide on an 8 inch wide wheel. Can I ask what profile is the tyre and how big is the stretch? Also I’d assume that  stretching that tyre size onto a wheel that wide would increase steering response and feel, but would make a sacrifice to ride quality and NVH? Entirely subjective of course to both function and form. 

It's stock size, 215/45/17. There isn't much stretch, very minimal. It's within spec for tyre width/wheel width. It doesn't do the ride any harm, nor does it increase NVH. 

The big problem with fitting a 225, is the increase in sidewall height which exemplifies the issue of sidewall flex as the sidewall is bigger. I tried it for sprinting, having a 225/45/17 on my 8" wheels. Didn't like it at all. 

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I was thinking this through , and to maintain steering feel and get better traction on a RWD, staggered set up of 215 on front axle and 225 on rear axle cannot be a bad set up for best of both worlds. It does not let you rotate tyres potentially front to back but only left to right. 

@James- Do you find 225 perceivably different to 215 or is it much of a muchness?

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Highly suggest against staggered setup. Even more so if with stock alignment, which is understeer biased already, making it even more understeer-ish seems .. unwise. Also slight diameter differences may mis-trigger nannies due misdetected differences by wheel slip sensors. And you'll loose ability to get more out of tires via rotating. If also wheels are staggered, it will make harder to sell off wheel set later on and/or buy replacements. One should be happy that these cars have square stock tire/wheel sizing. Why go for cons of staggered setup intentionally?

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I can't see any advantage in different tyre sizes front to rear. The car hasn't been set up for different tyre widths and heights.

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There supposedly should be "advantage" of being able to fit clearance wise slightly wider wheels in rear then in front for those few who's goal is to fit maximum wide barrels for wheels. Going that wide has drawbacks/issues of it's own, but staggered may help such goal. Also some going forced induction, go by hunch of what they imagine, that "if thing changed is more power/torque">it's RWD>i need more grip & thus wider tires in rear only, forgetting cons of staggered setup, and forgetting that acceleration is just one of driving aspects, that suspension/nannies/brake bias of these cars were not designed with staggered setup in mind, and one can do such simple thing, as wider tires/wheels both in front and rear.

I know i hated understeer with square setup and stock alignment on track. I know importance of retaining brake bias. I have limited budget thus can only welcome things that let me save onto something. Hence for various combined reasons advising against going staggered, where one pays $ to make car worse.

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23 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

I was thinking this through , and to maintain steering feel and get better traction on a RWD, staggered set up of 215 on front axle and 225 on rear axle cannot be a bad set up for best of both worlds. It does not let you rotate tyres potentially front to back but only left to right. 

@James- Do you find 225 perceivably different to 215 or is it much of a muchness?

I'm finding my 225 tyres absolutely fine. No difference in steering tbh. Just feels grippier which is what I wanted anyway. I'm very happy, would I be happier on 215? Who knows. But 225 I've run for ~500 miles now and they're fantastic.

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@BRZ-123

A general update...

 

Absolutely loving my tyres. 225 is fantastic, PS4 also fantastic. I worried it would kill the fun of the car, but no. Just given supreme confidence and made the car a blast, as you can really really hold the speed now through the corners.

Truly the best purchase I've made thus far.

 

To anyone on the fence, 225 is fine. PS4's are excellent.

Have a look for cashback offers... I got mine for a very cheap price all in all.

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I think PS4s being superb is now an open secret.

The Avon ZZ5 I have on my car at present (they came with the wheels) could be safely said to be a bit crap, especially in the wet.  I can't wait to put PS4 back on, but it's going to be a swap to my 'winter' wheels and all-seasons tyres before that happens.

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PS4's for me too. Not yet sure about the size, however. The Primacy tyres still aren't worn, but after a year I hate them in wet and cold conditions.

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20 hours ago, Jay said:

PS4's for me too. Not yet sure about the size, however. The Primacy tyres still aren't worn, but after a year I hate them in wet and cold conditions.

 

21 hours ago, MartinT said:

I think PS4s being superb is now an open secret.

The Avon ZZ5 I have on my car at present (they came with the wheels) could be safely said to be a bit crap, especially in the wet.  I can't wait to put PS4 back on, but it's going to be a swap to my 'winter' wheels and all-seasons tyres before that happens.

My primacies were brand new really... I'd done ~2k miles on them.

But they're just not good tyres overall, they're pretty okay in the dry. But since having the PS4 it really highlights how poor they were. I went 225 purely because of cost, was about £40 cheaper a tyre... I got them for around £60 a tyre. Including ATS euro discount + cashback from halifax + cashback from top cash back. But they only had 225, but zero regrets. Plus the tyres look/feel better than my 215s ever did.

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2 hours ago, James- said:

 

My primacies were brand new really... I'd done ~2k miles on them.

But they're just not good tyres overall, they're pretty okay in the dry. But since having the PS4 it really highlights how poor they were. I went 225 purely because of cost, was about £40 cheaper a tyre... I got them for around £60 a tyre. Including ATS euro discount + cashback from halifax + cashback from top cash back. But they only had 225, but zero regrets. Plus the tyres look/feel better than my 215s ever did.

Pricewise the width of the tyre doesn't make any difference, over here in The Netherlands. It'll be around 100 Euros each. In Germany I can get them for about 85 Euros, but then I'll have to drive an extra 160 miles or so.

225 would make the car look a tiny bit better, I guess.

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It's not so much width that changes price, as to how common that specific sizing is. 225/45/17 is more popular in several high-numbers generic family cars vs our stock sizing of 215/45/17 (niche coupes like our cars are sold in relatively much much lower numbers to impact significantly offered sizings/commonality/price), hence i see in 2/3 to 3/4th of cases 225 "of same tire" being cheaper. Now reducing profile height from tire sizing properties as usually happens for tires of similar outer diameter but to fit on larger wheels like 18,19 and so on, commonly rises price, as it's more expensive for manufacturer to design/make almost as much capabilities in lower sidewall height.

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