Turbo charged 86 new platform

[Deanusrjm 6]

Saw this interesting article so thought I’d share.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/turbocharged-toyota-86-need-new-platform-says-chief-engineer/

 

 

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[Varelco 211]

Poor guy must get fed up with that question. I'm glad he stuck to his guns though. No doubt if there was a turbocharged version people will moan, "its too expensive" "it loses it character". 

Saying that the car would need an entire new platform is a cop out though. Downsizing with a turbo is unlikely to be much heavier if any at all.

[Paul 442]

I appreciate that the man has a blueprint in his head, but 200bhp just isn't enough. I got smashed on the dual carriageway by a Fiesta ST the other day, the way this car looks and handles it could have easily coped with 280-300bhp and been a lot more competitive to drive. Those out there who have modified their cars with turbos/superchargers are proof the chassis can handle it and that the "additional weight" doesn't suddenly ruin the car.

[Church 209]

There was time when i also started to think - "not enough", but that was prior i actually started going to trackdays, and now think that it's perfectly "just right". More power - just harder to fine-control, pay more for purchase/installation/maintenance/insurance/taxes, pay more for other mods that should accompany power increase (better brakes/grippier tires/better clutch & tranny), power that is there stock lets go fast enough and have fun.

Though of course from people owning these cars per each track enthusiast there are at least 10 or more that just daily drive & never been to track, never really pushed/explored limits in curves and all they know - in straight line w/o turbo it accelerates slower and doesn't push into seats, so maybe this is what forms more common view about 'not enough'.

[Varelco 211]

49 minutes ago, Paul said:

. I got smashed on the dual carriageway by a Fiesta ST the other day, the way this car looks and handles it could have easily coped with 280-300bhp and been a lot more competitive to drive. 

And this matters why? Who cares, If you bought a GT86 to out drag other cars then you bought the wrong car. Personally I enjoy driving not comparing, I couldn't care less what everyone else around me is doing. Pretty sure every GT86 owner knows what they are getting into when they bought one. There are plenty of quick boring cars out that you can blow everyone away with on public roads if thats your thing.

'200bhp isn't enough' has only come around because manufacturers have cranked up the power of their cars in a bid to outdo each other.  Nobody whinged several years ago when most hot hatches etc were knocking around that mark,. I've driven a Harrop 'charged car back to back with my own and yeah it was a hell of alot faster but it wasn't anymore enjoyable, just ended up sitting on the brakes all the time.

Each to their own.

[Conscript 45]

Well, it isn't enough if you're looking to race people on dual carriageways, no. I don't think that's really what the car was designed for though. Plenty enough to enjoy on a deserted twisty road at 6AM on a Sunday though.

However, although I'm not bothered by a factory turbo option, I think his comments are a bit of an evasion. A whole new platform just because adding a turbo would mean slightly more weight in the front? Surely easily offset by moving the battery to the rear or something. Besides, there are plenty of aftermarket turbo options which seem to enhance the existing platform. 

[Mike 458]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

I appreciate that the man has a blueprint in his head, but 200bhp just isn't enough. I got smashed on the dual carriageway by a Fiesta ST the other day, the way this car looks and handles it could have easily coped with 280-300bhp and been a lot more competitive to drive. Those out there who have modified their cars with turbos/superchargers are proof the chassis can handle it and that the "additional weight" doesn't suddenly ruin the car.

You mean the ~200hp fiesta st? Shouldn't be getting smashed by one  

[nerdstrike 186]

It is inordinately more difficult for a manufacturer to "just turbo" a car. Unlike the modifiers, they have to worry about reliability, cost and regulatory compliance. One of the factors of keeping the price down will be only having to make one core model of the car. Hence all the special editions have been bolt-on bits and paint jobs rather than changes to the drivetrain.

[Nelix 19]

Love it! 

Takes the piss for someone not being prepared for snow owning a RWD GT86 that we all know is going to be crap in the snow, and the snow was coming. Then moans that their GT86 which we all knew was 200hp before buying one, gets smashed on the dual carriageway as 200hp isn't enough.

 

Oh the irony.

[Paul 442]

1 hour ago, Nelix said:

Love it! 

Takes the piss for someone not being prepared for snow owning a RWD GT86 that we all know is going to be crap in the snow, and the snow was coming. Then moans that their GT86 which we all knew was 200hp before buying one, gets smashed on the dual carriageway as 200hp isn't enough.

 

Oh the irony.

Hey I still love the car with 200bhp, it's taught me a lot about driving and is great fun to drive. But I'm now at the point where it's power deficiency is becoming a sore spot. And I have owned it for 2.5 years at this point, it's not like it was an overnight realisation!

[Ade 517]

Nothing wrong with wanting more power, after all the GT86 is a great handling car and it wont ruin the character of the car. 

My personal opinion is for road it doesn't need more power but for track I wanted more. Though the low end torque from the blower is nice on road and track. 

[VAD17 479]

Interesting exchange of opinions.

I went for GT86 because I value handling more than raw power and 200hp is imo plenty for a daily and weekend enjoyment without showing off.

Torque dip is easy to fix with manifold and retune.

If I would be doing more or mainly motorway driving I probably would want a different car (although I found GT86 better on motorways than I thought it would be).

But I must admit on track (even with my limited experience and probably to compensate for the lack of ability) I wish I had more. Although mainly on straights and coming from the corners where I managed to get the line and throtle balance right (doesn't happen consistently enough yet unfortunately).

Would be great to try both NA and FI back to back on road and track. I know I d be asking myself whether I want one or just change the FD on my auto...

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[Lauren 2259]

I would say if you know how to balance the chassis, 200bhp or thereabouts is enough. If you know how to carry the speed into the corner, you won't be slow out of the corner. If you're struggling with this, get some tuition. I've driven a an AVO turbo on track. Yes it was faster down the straight but it's no faster really through the corner, it's balance and how you set the car up for the corner that matters here and power makes less of a difference. Getting the car setup well and knowing how to use it is key. What a lot of people do is try and compensate for this by adding more power in the form of forced induction, but the irony is that those that do this tend not to really track their cars. A look at the amount of entries in the forced induction class for the TSS will tell you all you need to know here. Just to make it more ironic when we did have a few in the FI class we beat them in the N1S class anyway and often by quite a margin. It's more about the drive than the car on track. 

This news article just tells you that a turbo option is not going to happen if it tells you anything at all. If you need a supercharger or turbo look to aftermarket I say, that is what it's for. Lots of well proven options. 

[Ade 517]

I would say if you know how to balance the chassis, 200bhp or thereabouts is enough. If you know how to carry the speed into the corner, you won't be slow out of the corner. If you're struggling with this, get some tuition. I've driven a an AVO turbo on track. Yes it was faster down the straight but it's no faster really through the corner, it's balance and how you set the car up for the corner that matters here and power makes less of a difference. Getting the car setup well and knowing how to use it is key. What a lot of people do is try and compensate for this by adding more power in the form of forced induction, but the irony is that those that do this tend not to really track their cars. A look at the amount of entries in the forced induction class for the TSS will tell you all you need to know here. Just to make it more ironic when we did have a few in the FI class we beat them in the N1S class anyway and often by quite a margin. It's more about the drive than the car on track. 
This news article just tells you that a turbo option is not going to happen if it tells you anything at all. If you need a supercharger or turbo look to aftermarket I say, that is what it's for. Lots of well proven options. 

People dont beleive me when I say that the supercharger doesnt reduce lap time by that much at all. Even at Bedford I don't think it more than 3 seconds.

You spend far more time braking and cornering where you are grip limited so tyres (and brakes if they fade) are the best way to reduce laptimes.

There's a comparison of primacies vs AD08Rs somewhere on you tube in an Frs and iirc the guy dropped 3.7s in a 1min 20s lap so you can see how at beford or snet 300 it could be 10seconds.

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[Lauren 2259]

On 14/03/2018 at 7:02 PM, VAD17 said:

Would be great to try both NA and FI back to back on road and track. I know I d be asking myself whether I want one or just change the FD on my auto...

 

Changing your final drive would massively help as the gearing is intergalactic on the auto. 

[surrey86 352]

I think good tyres would make even more difference on a flowing track like Donington or Cadwell, Bedford is a bit of a power circuit. That said when Steve took me out in his HKS supercharged car it was only 8 mph faster on the long straight.

The extra torque will give you more options on gear selection though. 

[Ade 517]

I think good tyres would make even more difference on a flowing track like Donington or Cadwell, Bedford is a bit of a power circuit. That said when Steve took me out in his HKS supercharged car it was only 8 mph faster on the long straight.
The extra torque will give you more options on gear selection though. 

Yeah that's the point its nowhere near as much as people think. Somewhere like blyton its hardly anthing.





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[S18 RSG 429]

Every time the topic of "forced induction" is brought up on this forum, the most popular argument against FI is "learn to drive on track before increasing power", or some other nonsense, as if driving the car on a track is the only way your opinion becomes validated.

People need to learn that not everyone who buys a sports car buys it for track use. I tracked my car twice in the 2 and a half years I owned it. I did everything from a full NA setup to a near 300hp turbo setup, yet, to some people, because I wasn't at every track day or didn't join the Sprint Series, my opinion is far less valid.

Nearly everyone on this forum will spend ~90% of their time driving a GT86 driving it on the road, and quite likely on a boring road. Simply put, for that ~90% of the time, the GT86/BRZ being "built for corners" and "fast enough on the right road" isn't enough, and you're kidding yourself if you think 200hp is "fun" on a straight road, or the daily commute through town.

Adding a turbo/supercharger doesn't detract from the fun the platform offers on the right road, or a track. It requires more concentration and more skill to master, as well as some supporting mods to really make the most of it. However, the extra power means the platform can be enjoyed for the other huge percentage of driving, such as motorway miles, as the enjoyment of keeping up with much faster cars is a joy in itself.

I've developed a theory over my time on here, that most of the nay-sayers on this forum (when talking about FI) are only nay-saying as they either can't afford to do it themselves, or are scared of the potential consequences to reliability (or similar). To those people, I'd suggest that your voice has been heard, so no need to keep repeating yourself.

To everyone else who wants more power, whether for better track times, more enjoyment on the road, or simply to get more "scene" points in the McDonalds car park, I say go for it. Your money, your car, your life  

 

[MartinT 514]

I had a great time adding a supercharger to my previous Honda CR-Z.  It performed superbly and was a lot of fun to drive.  I didn't take it near a track and didn't need to as superchargers are better for real-world performance gains which is why I chose it over a turbo.

I doubt that I will take my BRZ on a track, although it may happen in the future.  I may well consider going with the TD turbo kit one day, though.  I also consider life to be a continuous learning process and always try to improve my driving, often taking the longer route off motorways to enjoy and learn more.

The BRZ is a great car but it's one of the lowest power road vehicles I've had in the last 20 years.  If I go FI one day, it'll be for real-world gains and more driving pleasure on the road.

[Nails 18]

I agree with @S18 RSG 

However, driver enjoyment is not just about bhp and how fast your car can accelerate in a straight line to 60. My previous car had over 400bhp and I much prefer the GT86. To me, it just feels like an occasion to drive it, even though I use it as my daily. To some people the car is too slow, everyone is entitled to their opinion, to me the car is an occasion just to drive as it is, to someone else it might be totally dull. 

In regards to forced induction, it is something I may or may not do one day but there are a lot of people who seem to slag it off and say the car doesn't need it. Again, this is down to personal opinion, or perhaps as S18 RSG mentioned, because people can't afford it/justify it they automatically try and put other people off it.