ThatGuyThere 54 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Hi again Got my wheel alignment done, close to what I wanted. It wasn't too far out anyway despite the rise in height. I was hoping it would make the car more pliant, but no. The ride of this car is awful on the roads I drive on. Trying to accelerate even at low revs over bumpy surfaces, feels like the rear is bouncing around far too much and the revs go up and down despite no traction control light flickering. I don't mind firm suspension, within reason - but right now it is IMPOSSIBLE to make even mildly quick progress on a lot of the roads locally. I've tried a variety of damping settings on my coilovers (ST XTA's) and while softer does make the ride less harsh, it doesn't really address the main problem, which is how badly the rear wheels seem to react to uneven surfaces. I will admit, the roads I drive on are very poor, and not at all flat and smooth. This video gives an idea, I drive this exact route daily, and the road is not enjoyable at all in my GT86 - I feel I'd make quicker progress in my girlfriend's underpowered hatchback. Am I hitting the bumpstops? Do I need more travel and bigger shocks? Is there some other part that could make a difference? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 are you on stock roll bars? and what tyres? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatGuyThere 54 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Michelin Pilot Sport 3 tyres. Stock as far as I know - does this photo help?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatGuyThere 54 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Just now, don said: How low are you currently on your coilovers? My Tein Street Advance were hitting the bump stops constantly making for a bad ride. If that is the case raising it would cure it, or coilovers with better range for lowering. Tein Flex A, Meister R CRD, BC etc I'm as high as the manufacturers of the coilovers recommend. So approx 20-30mm lower than standard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alucardo 55 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Did you drive the same roads on standard suspension? What are the spring rates on the coilovers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 You did alignment .. but what are current dialed in numbers? Also as quick fix i'd lower pressure in tires .. and how about considering smaller size disks eg. R16 for higher sidewall profile to soak more road irregularities? I'd also rise car to max coilovers allow to gain back some of bumpless travel. Choice between looks vs undrivable seems obvious to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul 442 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Move? 1 ThatGuyThere reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatGuyThere 54 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 I've not driven these roads with standard suspension, the coilovers came with the car. 5 minutes ago, Church said: You did alignment .. but what are current dialed in numbers? Also as quick fix i'd lower pressure in tires .. and how about considering smaller size disks eg. R16 for higher sidewall profile to soak more road irregularities? I'd also rise car to max coilovers allow to gain back some of bumpless travel. Choice between looks vs undrivable seems obvious to me. Toe is zero, front and rear camber are just under -2. Lower tyre pressure makes it a little better - they were down at 25 last week before I inflated them to 32. They are set at the highest recommended height - that was the first thing I did after buying the car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 @Adamd I've been through about 6 suspension setups on my car now. One of the issues the GT86 suffers is it has very short rear dampers (I have been told by a couple of the suspension companies I've dealt with that they are the shortest dampers of any car they currently deal with). When i was last at AST they had some BMW 3 series rear dampers on the bench next to my Motons. The BMW rears are over twice the size of the 86 dampers. Unfortunately this means the damper travel at the rear will be very limited due to the design. I believe the ST's follow the same design as the KW's so you probably have about as much rear damper as you're reasonably going to get. Even the stock car is not the most comfortable ride and with the ST's on you've increased the spring rate above stock. I have similar sorts of roads to you where I live and I was definitely faster on them in my previous car (a VW Scirocco) due to the suspension set up on that compared to the 86. However, what you will probably find is that the faster you go the better you'll find the dampers will work - most coilovers tend to give priority to the low speed damping over the high speed damping as that's where the handling happens. Unfortunately the high speed damping is what rounds off the harshness you're experiencing. I haven't tried the KW's or ST's myself but of all the setups i have tried I felt that the Tein Flex A's were the best road set up. The hydraulic bump stop really does help to take the edge off some of the harsher bumps. It may be worth meeting up with a few owners and seeing how their cars are to see how yours compares? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 I'm happy with my car on Bilsteins B14s. The ride is probably firmer than standard at low speed, but on fast bumpy B roads it's much better - feels less crashy than stock. I used to have to back off on the stock suspension. I have them as high as they'll go - I think barely 10-20mm lower than stock. If you're in the NW you're welcome to come and compare... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 The trouble is, if your damper bodies pre-load the spring and that is your ride height combined lowering will shorten the available damper stroke. This is true of the Tein Street Advance and some of the others, I'm guessing it's the case with the ST's. However other coilovers can adjust the ride height independently of the damper stroke, so they will fair better. The Flex A and Flex Z and the earlier Flex that I have are like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfranklyn86 52 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 I'm glad this thread popped up. I've been considering some chassis mods to try and get quicker in the corners on track. My understanding prior to see this thread was that a good set of coilovers = better handling, smoother ride and better looks (lowered). I.e win win win. This has got me thinking twice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 I think it can be, but really there are always compromises to make. I've ran my Tein Streetflex with custom spring rates and damping for over 70K miles. I also have the EDFC Active Pro. It rides pretty well. Potholes are best avoided, but the ride is generally good unless you're on dire badly surfaced residential streets. My car is lowered too, so I have to be careful over speed humps, particularly those square type ones. I spend most of my working life driving around poorly surfaced residential streets with mountainous speed humps. I just drive very slowly. But even when the car was stock, though it cleared square speed humps it was still pretty harsh over a poorly surfaced falling apart road. But things improve considerably on okay roads. The ride is better resolved and the handling is much improved. It's nearly win, win, but not quite win, win, win. Two out of three isn't bad I suppose. You make your choices. Don't forget the ST's are really at the budget end, so there is a bit of you get what you pay for. Pay more, you get better of course. Most run the Flex A's and are happy with them. Mine is the earlier version so it lacks the hydro bump stops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 22 minutes ago, Lauren said: Don't forget the ST's are really at the budget end, so there is a bit of you get what you pay for. Pay more, you get better of course. Most run the Flex A's and are happy with them. Mine is the earlier version so it lacks the hydro bump stops. The ST XTA's Adam has are more expensive than Flex A's? 2 Ade and ThatGuyThere reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 Presumably the quality of damping makes a difference too. I must have a little less damper travel than stock, however the car feels a lot more controlled at speed on poor roads than it did stock. The standard suspension felt underdamped to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted March 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Adamd said: I've not driven these roads with standard suspension, the coilovers came with the car. Toe is zero, front and rear camber are just under -2. Lower tyre pressure makes it a little better - they were down at 25 last week before I inflated them to 32. They are set at the highest recommended height - that was the first thing I did after buying the car. BTW, hint, with different pressures front-rear your can do some quick on site/at track adjustments to change front-rear grip balance in simple way available to anyone, if one can get it more to one's liking to make it understeer less or more. Of course at some point reducing pressure adds extra mushiness/sidewall flex/takes out steering sharpness. But still is nice hack for test without touching anything rest in suspension (unadjustable for most), that can be then "set in stone" with eg. different camber settings and/or swaybars later on. But what i thought - "not highest recommended", but what coilover manufactorer lists as "minimum drop". For some of Teins it might be 20-30 former, and eg. 10mm later. Also IIRC some coilovers can still work fine even if adjusted to sit higher then what's listed "minimum" to them by "specs". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich 378 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 I'm very happy with the ride on my Flex As - it's better than stock on the road, and much better on track (I think the camber is the big factor for track). Hydro bump stop is nice, you can feel it catch the piston sometimes and it's a lot softer than just slamming into a rubber stop. Note that if you really push it it will just bang though. Mine also passed the girlfriend test - she said it rides better than most other cars, including the Audi A4 I had as a courtesy car. 1 ThatGuyThere reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfranklyn86 52 Report post Posted March 22, 2017 So it seems like it if I go premium coilovers then at the very worst the ride will be as good as stock. Excuse my ignorance, but are these things easy to adjust for a track day? Also, presumably you can't do any camber with them..... it's just ride height and stiffness. backstory: I've got some rude, pious colleagues at work who accuse me of having a cheap Japanese chav car. It's made me angry and I want to spend money so I can destroy them on track. The competition is an f-type jag, a C63 and a new golf GTI. Need the help of the gt86 community here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 Be more competitive on track? My answer would be - to have CHEAP japanese car .. and direct saved money to more track days and more HPDE tutoring received then owners of more expensive cars can afford. With stock (under)power of twins they'll get ahead in straights, with skills one can gain back in curves. Stickier tires and more camber can help upping cornering (&thus exit) speeds. That's budget variant. Or just go for forced induction right away, but even then stickier tires like MPSS/AD08R or even "cheater" RE71R won't hurt. But in general .. it's attitude problem of those collegues. If they are rude on such subject, i simply wouldn't value their opinion much and wouldn't get into arguing / "revenge" mood, just ignoring such people. They already are paying for their choice. Paying much much more. 1 Bfranklyn86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said: So it seems like it if I go premium coilovers then at the very worst the ride will be as good as stock. Excuse my ignorance, but are these things easy to adjust for a track day? Also, presumably you can't do any camber with them..... it's just ride height and stiffness. backstory: I've got some rude, pious colleagues at work who accuse me of having a cheap Japanese chav car. It's made me angry and I want to spend money so I can destroy them on track. The competition is an f-type jag, a C63 and a new golf GTI. Need the help of the gt86 community here! If you have TEIN suspension like I do and have the EDFC Active Pro adjusting the damper settings for the track is merely a matter of pressing a couple of buttons on the EDFC unit, to set to my track settings. The TEINS have adjustable top mounts so front camber is adjustable, though you don't really go and change your camber just for the track. The rears as with any other coilover setup require adjustable lower control arms or offset bushes (as I have) to adjust the camber. 2 degrees negative camber all round makes a big difference for the track. The bump and rebound adjust together (not indepedently) on the TEINs. But even if you don't have EDFC, it's simply a matter of twisting the knobs on top of the damper unit under the bonnet and in the boot. The work of a moment really. Don't forget track days are not competitive. IME a Golf GTI will be easy to beat. I was easily quicker on a sprint than my friends 375bhp remapped Golf R, though the track did not have long straights. In regard to being quicker than your colleagues, will wholly depend upon how good a driver you are. This will be far more of a factor than the car. 2 Stutopia and Bfranklyn86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 Hang on though @Lauren! Mike was multiple seconds slower you in a gt86 (even supercharged) so its not a fair comparison to the golf R which is very capable! On track you know driver skill is everything and thats the reason you overtake most cars @Bfranklyn86 - I would NEVER suggest to anyone that any aftermarket coilover is more comfortable than stock. Its a very subjective matter. Doubling the spring rates and proper damping will always be firm, its just that the way the damping works to give a smother feel that can make it subjectively smoother. Also stroke length is shortened so you cant take the same bigger bumps as with the stock suspension as you'll hit a bump rubber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 There is no simple or correct answer, I am now running a much higher spring rate and track biased coilover that is more compliant than the previous softer Street coilover of a different make. Get rides in different cars at meets and decide what is best for you, as for beating your mates on track........ Driver skill and training is the best upgrade. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 1 minute ago, KevinA said: There is no simple or correct answer, I am now running a much higher spring rate and track biased coilover that is more compliant than the previous softer Street coilover of a different make. Get rides in different cars at meets and decide what is best for you, as for beating your mates on track........ Driver skill and training is the best upgrade. Tein Monos? I was going to get them until I convinced Nigel to sell me his Ohlins. Will be good to get a ride at some point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted March 23, 2017 That's right Ade with 8/7 spring rates, very surprised at Mallory Park on Sunday how much better than the Meisters Zeta R. Was able to push Caterfields through corners 1 Lauren reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
