Is there anything else I can try with my suspension before replacing it

[Lauren 2259]

3 hours ago, Ade said:

Hang on though @Lauren! Mike was multiple seconds slower you in a gt86 (even supercharged) so its not a fair comparison to the golf R which is very capable! On track you know driver skill is everything and thats the reason you overtake most cars 

@Bfranklyn86 - I would NEVER suggest to anyone that any aftermarket coilover is more comfortable than stock. Its a very subjective matter. Doubling the spring rates and proper damping will always be firm, its just that the way the damping works to give a smother feel that can make it subjectively smoother.  Also stroke length is shortened so you cant take the same bigger bumps as with the stock suspension as you'll hit a bump rubber.

 

 

I'm talking about Mike Pease who knows Snetterton far better than I do. The year previous he competed in his supercharged GT86 in pouring rain and he even beat Adrian. He was seriously quick. Mike was a fair bit slower than me at all the other rounds though, but at Snetterton he is a bit of a specialist. 

[KevinA 695]

I was 2secs/lap quicker at Snetterton than the Golf r in the dry, on last year's set up. So that shows how capable the 86 is even NA 

[shiftspark 41]

Very interested in your setup @KevinA 

[Lauren 2259]

4 hours ago, shiftspark said:

Very interested in your setup @KevinA 

He's changed it since last year. 

[shiftspark 41]

A secret then 

[Lauren 2259]

41 minutes ago, shiftspark said:

A secret then 

Not really! But his new setup has only just been tested on the track. Have to wait till the first round to see. Mine is totally unchanged again! 

[Stevo 6]

Looking at the video I would say that the suspension is far too hard for the roads you're usually driving on going by the crashing you can hear when you hit rough surfaces - that could just be the camera mic picking up background noise.

I've experienced this on a lot of friends caterfield type cars. Most I have driven/seen are far too stiff for road use. I usually back the damper settings off to the minimum (counting the clicks so you know what they were originally) and make a note of them too.

On a light car like my Westie I tend to only run about 7 clicks on the front and 3/4 clicks on the rear. This is out of a maximum range of 20 clicks to full hard.

The last Westie I looked at was so damn stiff that if you hit the slightest bump it was trying to fire you off into a hedge! After tweaking the dampers the owner reported that it was like a different car and it actually made him much more confidence in the car.

If you think that the shocks are hitting the bump stops a quick and easy way to test that out is to jack the car up and put a small cable tie round the shocker shaft above the bump stop. Drive the car and then jack it back up and see where the cable tie is.

Bothe the above will only cost you a bit of time. If the damping has been wound right up once you get a bit of compliance back into (assuming that's what's wrong) you can then tweak the damping to your tastes from there.

I don't suppose you happen to know what the spring rates are? If the above doesn't help then it could be that the rates are too high.

[Deacon 1357]

15 minutes ago, Stevo said:

I don't suppose you happen to know what the spring rates are? If the above doesn't help then it could be that the rates are too high.

The ST XTA's are 6kg front and 5kg rear

[Stevo 6]

I think you may have misunderstood me @Deacon. I was wondering what the poundage rate of the spring is. It's usually on one of the coils or could be on the manufacturers website (I assume)

Anyone got a link to their site?

[Lauren 2259]

1 minute ago, Stevo said:

I think you may have misunderstood me @Deacon. I was wondering what the poundage rate of the spring is. It's usually on one of the coils or could be on the manufacturers website (I assume)

Anyone got a link to their site?

Most are done in metric. 6/5kg is the spring rate. 

I run 5/6kg on my setup. Most run 6/6kg. 

[Deacon 1357]

3 minutes ago, Stevo said:

I think you may have misunderstood me @Deacon. I was wondering what the poundage rate of the spring is. It's usually on one of the coils or could be on the manufacturers website (I assume)

Anyone got a link to their site?

As @Lauren said the values I gave are the spring rates 👍

[Stevo 6]

http://www.modbargains.com/st-xta-coilovers-scion-frs-subaru-brz-18258804.htm

Are these the coilovers?

If I'm honest I have never seen springs expressed in the format you guys use. But then I'm old and work in imperial still. (Most of the time 😊). 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Stevo
To clarify that I'm old!

[Deacon 1357]

7 minutes ago, Stevo said:

http://www.modbargains.com/st-xta-coilovers-scion-frs-subaru-brz-18258804.htm

Are these the coilovers?

 

Yes. Although that suggests 6kg front and 7kg rear

[Lauren 2259]

11 minutes ago, Stevo said:

http://www.modbargains.com/st-xta-coilovers-scion-frs-subaru-brz-18258804.htm

Are these the coilovers?

If I'm honest I have never seen springs expressed in the format you guys use. But then I'm old and work in imperial still. (Most of the time 😊). 

 

It's the modern world, Stevo. As I use Japanese suspension the rates are always in metric. I see you've had to resort to American to find imperial. 

[Stevo 6]

Haha yes it is a modern world but most of the repair manual still list torque settings and values in imperial 😜 as well as metric. I'm mightily annoyed that tyre pressures are now in bar on the door stickers....😡.

We digress, my initial suggestion still stands about doing the checks I suggested. If the spring rates are as per that website I would say that they are far too high (american or not 😁)

[Deacon 1357]

9 minutes ago, Stevo said:

If the spring rates are as per that website I would say that they are far too high (american or not 😁)

That kind of spring rate is fairly common for a lot of coilovers on this platform though. 6kg front and rear is probably most common (350lbs).

 

[Rich 378]

You you want to convert from metric to imperial, multiply by 56. So a 6kg spring is around 336 lb.

[KevinA 695]

2 hours ago, shiftspark said:

A secret then 

Tein Monosport with different spring rates this year, last year was Meister Zeta R's. Going to sell them shortly as no longer required, but they did ok on the ginger.

[Bfranklyn86 52]

16 hours ago, Lauren said:

If you have TEIN suspension like I do and have the EDFC Active Pro adjusting the damper settings for the track is merely a matter of pressing a couple of buttons on the EDFC unit, to set to my track settings. The TEINS have adjustable top mounts so front camber is adjustable, though you don't really go and change your camber just for the track. The rears as with any other coilover setup require adjustable lower control arms or offset bushes (as I have) to adjust the camber. 2 degrees negative camber all round makes a big difference for the track. The bump and rebound adjust together (not indepedently) on the TEINs. But even if you don't have EDFC, it's simply a matter of twisting the knobs on top of the damper unit under the bonnet and in the boot. The work of a moment really. 

Don't forget track days are not competitive. IME a Golf GTI will be easy to beat. I was easily quicker on a sprint than my friends 375bhp remapped Golf R, though the track did not have long straights. In regard to being quicker than your colleagues, will wholly depend upon how good a driver you are. This will be far more of a factor than the car. 

Thanks for that Lauren. If it's easy to adjust, would you not want the camber back to 0 for road driving for tyre wear purposes? 

Also, how much does the stiffened ride from the coilovers contribute to cornering speed, or is it mainly the camber adjustment that serves this purpose through extra grip?

Ride comfort is quite important for me as it's primarily a daily, so if I could get 90% of the benefit by just doing (easily) adjustable camber mods and better tyres, that would be preferable.

On a side note, I was actually able to keep up with a golf R in a 70 ->120 sprint the other day (closed road), which surprised me because I only dyno'd at 240whp

[nikndel 509]

7 hours ago, Stevo said:

http://www.modbargains.com/st-xta-coilovers-scion-frs-subaru-brz-18258804.htm

Are these the coilovers?

If I'm honest I have never seen springs expressed in the format you guys use. But then I'm old and work in imperial still. (Most of the time 😊). 

 

But not as old as me Steve

[Lauren 2259]

6 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

Thanks for that Lauren. If it's easy to adjust, would you not want the camber back to 0 for road driving for tyre wear purposes? 

Also, how much does the stiffened ride from the coilovers contribute to cornering speed, or is it mainly the camber adjustment that serves this purpose through extra grip?

Ride comfort is quite important for me as it's primarily a daily, so if I could get 90% of the benefit by just doing (easily) adjustable camber mods and better tyres, that would be preferable.

On a side note, I was actually able to keep up with a golf R in a 70 ->120 sprint the other day (closed road), which surprised me because I only dyno'd at 240whp

No, running a camber of 2 degrees negative is not a problem on the road. It handles better, well the turn in is better and there is a lot less understeer.  Camber is but one factor that contributes to increased cornering speed, but it's a relevant one. 2 degrees negative camber does not affect tyre wear, anymore would though. I've run this setup for 70K miles and my tyre wear is pretty even. 

My car is my daily car. I use it not only for commuting but for my work as well, so I'm driving around a fair bit during my working day. With the EDFC I have a setup for driving on the road which means it runs full soft at slow speeds with damping force increasing when my speed increases and of course when cornering as the EDFC works on lateral and longitudinal G-force as well as having GPS to adjust damping force for speed. I spent quite a lot of time programming it to find the settings I like. Most of the others running EDFC Active Pro use my settings. 

[Deacon 1357]

1 hour ago, Lauren said:

2 degrees negative camber does not affect tyre wear, anymore would though. 

That's not quite true. I've run about 2.5 degrees negative for several years now with no noticeable tyre wear issues.

[shiftspark 41]

10 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

 

Also, how much does the stiffened ride from the coilovers contribute to cornering speed, or is it mainly the camber adjustment that serves this purpose through extra grip?

Ride comfort is quite important for me as it's primarily a daily, so if I could get 90% of the benefit by just doing (easily) adjustable camber mods and better tyres, that would be preferable.

 

This is a good point, my plans when I get round to it was to stay on stock suspension and set it up using camber bolts at the front and adjustable rear arms to get the -2 camber front and rear as for me fitting coilovers seems to have more negatives than positives for a road car that will only see a track 6 times a year.

[Ade 517]

10 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

Also, how much does the stiffened ride from the coilovers contribute to cornering speed, or is it mainly the camber adjustment that serves this purpose through extra grip?

Ride comfort is quite important for me as it's primarily a daily, so if I could get 90% of the benefit by just doing (easily) adjustable camber mods and better tyres, that would be preferable.

On a side note, I was actually able to keep up with a golf R in a 70 ->120 sprint the other day (closed road), which surprised me because I only dyno'd at 240whp

Top: It depends on tyres. On V105s i'd argue that not much, but it feels nicer with a higher roll stiffness. With soft semi slicks you'll probably gain quite a bit as the stock suspention will be heavily on the bump rubbers. 

Middle: You should look at the RS*S i-sport motospec. These are well known to be very comfortable and capable and monotube.

http://www.rs-r.com/coilovers/

http://www.rs-r.com/product/scion-fr-ssubaru-brz-sports-i-coilovers-2012/

Bottom: Golf R is rapid with the REVO it can be around 370hp 0-60 3.7s. Power to weight of the golf R is ~200hp/ton. Yours 220hp/ton.....Revo ~250hp/ton

 

 

[Rich 378]

Also bear in mind a Golf R has higher drivetrain losses than a GT86 (the extra diffs suck up some power), its probably only about 240 WHP itself and getting on for 300 kg lardier.