Buying a supercharged gt86 with no experience of modified cars

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Hi

I'm considering buying this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/toyota/gt-86/supercharged-toyota-gt86-----------------2013/6761749#&gid=1&pid=1

I believe it was originally owned by someone on here.

I'm wanting it as a daily driver - I love the standard gt86 in every way apart from the power. So this seems ideal, however I've never owned anything modified so I'm a little intimidated.

I live in Yorkshire, surrounded by really poor quality roads, so the coil-overs worry me a little, but they are adjustable so I'm assuming I can put them higher and on relatively soft settings which will result in similar to standard?!

I don't want it to be ridiculously loud. The owner says that if I fit the OEM cat (comes with the car) then it will be quieter. Does that replace the " HKS Resonated Front Pipe " - excuse my ignorance? Looking at youtube and forum posts, the M7 exhaust sounds quite reasonable at idle and low-revs, which is what I am looking for.

Also, I've read someone say that the v2 supercharger has fewer bolts than the v1/v3 and is unreliable as a result? Can anyone advise on this? Are there people with this same set-up on here that have run it for tens-of-thousands of miles?

And finally - I understand that after fitting a supercharger, the ECU is re-mapped. How easy is it to remove the supercharger and then get the ECU back to standard? I'm just thinking if it turned out to be the wrong car for me - could I easily revert it to standard, sell the car for £14k and the supercharger kit for 3k? The market for these seems low, and I don't have a 2nd car so I couldn't wait 6 months for a sale if it's not suitable for me.

Any opinions, preferably of owners of supercharged cars, much appreciated.

I really want something more fun than an M135i - and I don't fit in a cayman

Thanks!

[Ade 517]

First thing I would say is that 288HP at the hubs is danger territory for the connecting rods which are a weak point with this car. I know of at least one person @GT86Jay blew a rod on that sort of power. He now runs a smaller restrictor with a new engine and has been for some time. 

Looking at the design of the M7, I cant see it being quiet, but then that a subjective matter! Putting the stock frontpipe (with OEM cat) in place of the HKS one will make a it a bit quieter. 

Regarding the coilovers, they look decent with a good amount of stoke. Coilover tend to be firm, but good dampers tend to make it ride nicer when going over stuff at speed i.e. on the motorway. These are 6kg front springs and 5kg rear springs, so I would expect it to be less tail happy than a stock gt86. 

Fitting the HKS V2 SC does require a little modification to the metal work for piping but nothing stuctural. You could remove the SC and ask Mark at Abbey to put a stock tune back on it. Just make sure the area where it is cut is properly protected, which I am sure it will be anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Varelco 211]

I recognise the car. Originally owned by Zenkizero on here, its safe to say its one of best modified example around, he only fitted high quality parts to that car. Everything is reversible but will obviously require your time or money to do so. You won't get 3k for a HKS supercharger, thats basically new kit terroritory, If im honest you probably wouldn't end up removing it anyway Coilovers can be adjusted so thats no real big deal in terms of clearness, however they will be firmer than the stock suspension. Your best bet is to test drive it, thats the only way to gauge the loudness of the exhaust and harshness of the ride.

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Thanks for the quick replies!

The issue with rods is nearly enough to put me off to be honest - I want none of that. To run a smaller restrictor would the ECU need re-tuning?

Any comment on the reliability of the v2 overall?

Varelco - that's good to hear. I'll go digging for old threads later. Fair point about the value of the SC!

I wish test driving it was easy to achieve - but I'm 4 hours away so it's less than ideal.

Again, many thanks for replying. Very helpful.

[Ade 517]

I dont think running a smaller restrictor should affect the tuning, but best to talk to Mark@Abbey

Quite a few people have blown rods at that power level, and others have done 40k miles and multiple track days without issue. That's down to the manufacturing tolerances of the rods. Something about 'notch sensitivity' in the casting of the conecting rods. Its the reason the Cosworth kit is limited to 280hp on the stock engine. 

 

 

[Lauren 2259]

Yes, this was Jonathan's car originally which he had from new. He did fit high quality components but removed pretty much all of them except the HKS kit before selling them on. ST coilovers are a bit on the cheap side, though I can't really comment as I haven't tried them myself. The current owner has of course also added the Rota wheels. 

As others' have said, you are running on the edge it would seem of what the engine can take realistically. How you get on is just a matter of how it goes. You could detune it a bit and reduce the power output to around 280bhp which would be safer on the rods. It will cost you a monkey most likely to do this. All these things depend upon how it's been driven of course. I don't think there are any major reliabiity problems with the HKS kit. 

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Thanks again.

I've emailed Mark at Abbey regarding this to enquire.

Excuse my total ignorance, but what exactly is:

" Tomei Overpipe "

and

" HKS Resonated Front Pipe " - is this the part that sits between the manifold and the exhaust, which is where the cat would usually be?

I know what a manifold is (go me! ).

@Lauren - if I was to buy this car, as you're in Manchester, can you recommend a garage to service/tweak in the area? I'm in Huddersfield. Many thanks.

[GT86-Ian 351]

Is the HKS system better than Cosworth ?

[nikndel 509]

Lee knows stacks about the Cosworth system

[S18 RSG 429]

33 minutes ago, Adamd said:

Thanks again.

I've emailed Mark at Abbey regarding this to enquire.

Excuse my total ignorance, but what exactly is:

" Tomei Overpipe "

and

" HKS Resonated Front Pipe " - is this the part that sits between the manifold and the exhaust, which is where the cat would usually be?

I know what a manifold is (go me! ).

@Lauren - if I was to buy this car, as you're in Manchester, can you recommend a garage to service/tweak in the area? I'm in Huddersfield. Many thanks.

I know I'm not Lauren, but you're in the fortunate position of being near both RRG Macclesfield, which is a main dealer (great for warranty work and plenty else) and Tuning Developments, who specialise in the tuning of these cars, and have plenty of experience with turbos, superchargers etc.

Give @Mike@TD.co.uk a shout regarding the tuning, he'd be happy to help I'm sure.

[Lauren 2259]

1 hour ago, Adamd said:

@Lauren - if I was to buy this car, as you're in Manchester, can you recommend a garage to service/tweak in the area? I'm in Huddersfield. Many thanks.

For Toyota, RRG Macclesfield is where everybody goes and for for good reason. 

For remaps and tuning, Tuning Developments in Warrington. Again, highly recommended. 

Edit, just seen Ross's response! 

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

@Adamd - If you're unsure then feel free to pop down sometime and i'll run you out in our 86 at circa 280hp. You can then get an idea of what a boosted 86/BRZ is like before you jump into buying if you wish.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Tuned UK 18]

In regards to the suspension the ST XTA's coilovers are Entry level in my opinion. I have run them on our GT86 for a number of years, and can honestly say that are great. However the only thing that lets them down is the plastic collar used to adjust the height, the Achilles heel unfortunately. But they are fully adjustable, and so are the dampners, so when it comes to the ride quality on the roads near you, you can just adjust the setup to suit. Also this car has been well built with high quality parts, so that should give you some peace of mind. Reliability shouldn't be an issue for you.

[Church 209]

Imho another potential drawback for STs might be a bit less rust resistance vs eg. KWs, might matter if driven daily in winter-salted-roads, no?

[billdingo 14]

Current owner is on here, the 86 wasn't his daily so ST's should be in decent condition still

 

[surrey86 352]

I've seen a few second hand ST's come up and they still looked in reasonable condition.

I used KW V1's on my Impreza for 3 years, daily driven, and they were pretty good in my limited experience. They are basically the same as ST's apart from being stainless steel.

Essentially I wouldn't be put off by a car with ST's.

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Firstly, big thanks for everyone for your input. Very helpful - I wouldn't have been confident to buy it without all your help.

So, 450 miles later...

Hahahaha, it's so fast. Reminds me of my old clio 172 cup - such a light feeling when driving it. Just what I wanted from the standard car. Any fear of it not being the right supercharger went out the window within 3 seconds.

However, it's too loud for me, although not quite as bad as I was fearing - I need to get this sorted asap. Not sure which part needs replacing - I'm loathe to touch a £4k exhaust, but I do want quite a drop in sound. Car came supplied with original cat, and I'm not too concerned about losing a few bhp so maybe that's a good first try? I'd like to be able to tootle around without it sounding too aftermarket, happy for very loud above 3.5k. I'd like something closer to a TTRS than a rally car

Also, suspension is too low for the roads and farm-tracks around here that I sometimes have to use. So that needs fixing asap too. I'll look today at how easy it is to raise the suspension, but likely will get professionals to do it on Monday. Looking at other photos, this seems like a 60mm drop - and I'd like to try 30mm. I'll also adjust the hard-soft setting to the middle rather than hard - it's good for A roads right now, but I barely see those.

Wheels catch on full lock - hoping the raise in height will resolve that, if not - needs investigating, or just getting used to only turning to 90%.

Where the front bumper meets the wing, there's a small gap. Searching, tells me it's fairly common after bumper removal. It's minor, but it bugs me so I'd like to get that sorted.

Why, oh why, is the armrest not standard?! That's getting ordered today.

Once I've made it suitable for daily driving, I'm considering:

Speakers.
Removing TOYOTA and GT86 badges from the back (might keep the 86 logo).
Canard and spoiler removal, and associated paint job.

[Tareim 343]

congrats on the purchase, as for removing the canards, there is a good chance you might find holes behind it which was used to help secure it to the bumper

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Oh, and a service. It's only been done once at 4k miles, and that was 2 years ago. Shall I see how bad Toyota Huddersfield are, or spend a day going over to Macclesfield?!

[Lauren 2259]

Check to see if Mark at Abbey serviced it, as otherwise your warranty will be out the window. 

Go to RRG Macc'. It's a no brainer. 

[Rich 378]

Not sure that's as much as a 60mm drop - 60mm on these is very low; they only have 130 mm clearance stock. The coilovers you have are quoted as: "Lowers Front 20-50mm Lowers Rear 25-55mm" So assuming you're at lowest settings now, you can lift it 30 mm. Should be enough to clear most stuff.

Swapping the HKS front pipe for the original catted front pipe is probably good place to to start on noise reduction too. Next step would be looking at getting a resonator welded into the mid-pipe.

[ThatGuyThere 54]

Wow - what a difference.

Figured it looked fairly straight-forward to adjust the height, so I did do. It was set about as low as the specifications recommend, and I raised it to just under the highest. Looks, to my eye, better at this height - more purposeful than showy - particularly with it running 17" wheels.

Took it for a quick drive on some very lumpy local roads - no longer bottoming out, which it was this morning, and no more catching on full-lock - hurray! Still very harsh over the bumps though.

Came home, adjusted the damping from the firmest possible (which the manual states to never use!) to half-way.

Another test drive - AMAZING! It's much more forgiving, I can accelerate on roads I previously would be losing traction on, and the annoying bouncy feeling has gone. My girlfriend will not need the sports-bra she was talking about when we went out this morning!

So pleased. I might try it a little softer after driving like this for a few days. I reckon like this, the damping is slightly harsher than the mk1 TT it replaced - which is fine for me.

However, there is now a very slight squeak coming from somewhere, which is only noticeable as you come to a stop (the road noise otherwise covers it). If I sit in the car and rock it with my body weight, it does it too. Any ideas?

Also raised two other issues, but I'll post them in the correct areas.

[Church 209]

Remember to do proper alignment when you dialed coilovers how you want. Change of ride height changes also geometry, toe/camber, as our suspension is not some double wishbone suspension that may keep geometry at different heights, but McPherson front, multi-link rear. It will also improve handling/grip with everything else staying same, so why not do it.

[surrey86 352]

Tbh my KW's were never completely noise free, I used to get slight squeaks - put it down to 'coilover noise'.

It's great you have so much adjustment in ST's.

[Guest]

On 2/19/2017 at 11:13 AM, Adamd said:

Oh, and a service. It's only been done once at 4k miles, and that was 2 years ago. Shall I see how bad Toyota Huddersfield are, or spend a day going over to Macclesfield?!

They aren't bad, but with it being modified i'd take it to a specialist.