Help! Can't get V-Power...

[Nicebiscuit 655]

In their wisdom Shell have closed and dug up ALL THREE of their petrol stations on my commute so I can't get V-power.

Any recommendations for the next best thing, especially from those with mapped cars? Seems like nearly everyone else's super unleaded is 97 RON which I suspect isn't going to cut it...

Bright ideas?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billdingo 14]

I believe Tesco momentum is 99 RON

[Kodename47 446]

Tesco, or just stomach Esso/BP's 97. It's not going to cause you any issues.

[Tareim 343]

if your car is mapped does it have a 2nd mapping for low grade fuel? so you could get away with basic fuel for now just to get you by until Shell reopens if you can't find any other decent fuel

[Guest]

.

[long-gone 152]

ECU will soon adjust itself. I wouldn't sweat it.

[Kodename47 446]

14 minutes ago, Tareim said:

if your car is mapped does it have a 2nd mapping for low grade fuel? so you could get away with basic fuel for now just to get you by until Shell reopens if you can't find any other decent fuel

The ECU adjusts for low quality fuel anyway. If it was FI then running constant correction might not be ideal (although WRX/STi's do it) but on an NA car then just buy fuel, drive it.

[nerdstrike 186]

The car definitely loses some fizz on 95 RON, I try to avoid it, but it can be hard to find anything else out in rural areas. As for 97/98/99, just pick one and go with it, they're probably splitting hairs between them.

[Mike 458]

Drive off your commute to the nearest one?  

[Bfranklyn86 52]

When I can't get V power I use the BP 97 stuff. Seems to work ok for mine which is supercharged.

[Rich 378]

I use Tesco 99 quite a lot of the time as it's cheaper than V-Power. No complaints.

[S18 RSG 429]

Interesting to hear that Tesco fuel gets a good reputation given the negative press surrounding supermarket fuel quality. I used Tesco a few times when they first introduced Momentum, but started avoiding it after hearing some stories relating to reasons why the fuel is comparably cheaper. I've basically used Shell exclusively since then.

Might have to give them a try again. They're always a few pence cheaper around here.

[Paul 442]

Change jobs?

[KobayashiMaru 28]

Momentum99 is fine. I've never had an issue with it in the last 4 cars I've had in various states of tune. Although VPower feels a little better (placebo?) it's also quite a bit more expensive. 

[Rich 378]

1 hour ago, S18 RSG said:

Interesting to hear that Tesco fuel gets a good reputation given the negative press surrounding supermarket fuel quality. I used Tesco a few times when they first introduced Momentum, but started avoiding it after hearing some stories relating to reasons why the fuel is comparably cheaper. I've basically used Shell exclusively since then.

Might have to give them a try again. They're always a few pence cheaper around here.

Rumours abound, but I'm not aware of any actual problems with supermarket fuel, just lots of "bloke down the pub" and "my mate said" stories.

Part of the reason it is cheaper is they can accept a much finer margin than a stand alone station as some costs are shared with the main store.

[Rich196 103]

There is nothing wrong with being a V power snob, i will drive out of my way within reason.

I believe that super market fuels are cheaper due to the fact they contain less additives like cleaning agents. Don't know if its true.

I dont have a low ron map on my car anymore. Its mapped for 97+, but dont get bent out of shape about fuel. If you get stuck put 95 in it. It will still run, it might not be as smooth while the ECU adapts, just do not give the engine a beating. Its in the high RPMS where the 97+ ron comes into its own to stop engine knock. If I had to I would put 95 in mine to get somewhere, but I wouldnt WOT, or go able 4-5 RPM.

[Kodename47 446]

1 hour ago, Rich196 said:

There is nothing wrong with being a V power snob, i will drive out of my way within reason.

Says he with a Shell on his doorstep

 

3 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said:

When I can't get V power I use the BP 97 stuff. Seems to work ok for mine which is supercharged.

Unless you can see what the ECU's doing, you probably wouldn't know.

As Rich has said, on cruising the quality of fuel is not that crucial and if it does knock it's not going to do any damage. On WOT then knock can do some real damage especially if running higher cylinder pressures, like boost. Now, how much damage is done is dependent on how good the knock retard systems are. It's believed that they are quite good on this platform. However I have heard the onset of knock without any timing being pulled. I've also known it the other way too.

Without going into too much detail, the occasional onset of knock detection, the ECU will basically pull some ignition timing as the event is happening. This will reduce power only for that moment. I bet you wouldn't notice that. But there are some load and RPM ranges that the FA20 is more prone to knocking and if you consistently hit this, then the ECU will start to reduce timing over most of the map range. How much will depend on how consistently it keeps on doing it and also how one of the ignition maps is tuned. This would be far more obvious. Usually none of these really have any noticeable impact unless you're putting higher load on the engine.

So back to my original statement, any RON fuel is fine. Having seen the data sheets for the 99 RON fuels, V-Power is the better one, Momentum is 99 RON due to it's ethanol content.

In terms of knock resistance in the UK:

1. V-Power (99)
2. Momentum99
3. BP Ultimate (97)
4. Esso Synergy Supreme+ (97) - Not sure if the newer Synergy is improved from before the rebrand
5. Any Supermarket 97

[Rich196 103]

15 minutes ago, knightryder said:

1 hour ago, Rich196 said:

There is nothing wrong with being a V power snob, i will drive out of my way within reason.

Says he with a Shell on his doorstep

This is true, on a clear day I can see the price from the living window

However one time when I really need Vpower on my way to brands hatch it had ran out. #trackcarproblems

[S18 RSG 429]

2 hours ago, Rich196 said:

There is nothing wrong with being a V power snob, i will drive out of my way within reason.

I believe that super market fuels are cheaper due to the fact they contain less additives like cleaning agents. Don't know if its true.

This is sort of my thought process too. I have no idea if it's true, but I get the impression that if Shell and Tesco (for example) both bought in their fuel from the same source, they would sell it for the same price (they operate on very similar profit margins around the £2 billion mark, so I don't think margins are the reason). It's for the reason that they sell it cheaper, plus the various rumors akin to yours, that make me think there could be some truth to it.

Again, no idea if it's true, but with how convenient Shell is for me (3 garages within a few miles compared to 1 Tesco), I've never had to worry. Having said that, when I'm away for work I'm often far more likely to run into a Tesco than a Shell.

[Mike 458]

2 hours ago, Rich said:

Rumours abound, but I'm not aware of any actual problems with supermarket fuel, just lots of "bloke down the pub" and "my mate said" stories.

Part of the reason it is cheaper is they can accept a much finer margin than a stand alone station as some costs are shared with the main store.

I'd agree with this, don't think there's much different in the fuels (supermarket / non-supermarket). Supermarkets can sell it cheaper because they can use the main store profits to afford thinner margins. They're also in competition with each other - supermarkets want you to buy as much as they offer from them so if they can get you to the shop via cheap fuel prices, you're more likely to go shopping in their store than a competitors.

[Keethos 842]

Maybe supermarket fuel is cheaper to get people there and while they are there, pop in to buy some groceries?

Sent from my EDI-AL10 using Tapatalk

[Kodename47 446]

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'd agree with this, don't think there's much different in the fuels (supermarket / non-supermarket). 

This may be the case with 95 RON, it's not true about SUL but mainly because there is such variation in type. Most supermarkets only do 97, BP and Esso treat theirs with specific additives. Tesco and V-Power are different and have different MON ratings, making V-Power the better fuel. MON is actually a better indicator of what has the better knock resistance in a performance vehicle.

[S18 RSG 429]

I don't really understand how having the store alongside the fuel station helps them share costs, because the revenue numbers (comparing Shell and Tesco specifically) would suggest rather the opposite. Shell rakes in 4 times the annual revenue of Tesco.

Where I think you guys make a good point is that maybe Tesco are willing to work to different margins than Shell. Perhaps Shell don't actually see Tesco as a competitor, so they work to margins that only make them competitive with other fuel companies: BP; Esso etc.

Also, I think you also make a good point when you say they use the low prices as a way to lure customers in to buy as many of their products as possible, which is perhaps why they're willing to work to these lower margins on the fuel. Why go to Shell, then the butchers, then the fishmonger, then Currys, when you could go to Tesco and fill up with fuel, buy some steak, fish and a new TV all at the same time.

I think I will still, maybe even subconsciously, always prefer Shell no matter what. I know their product is good, and I have 8 years of reward points from them which also helps, but I may not be so hesitant to fill up at Tesco in the future if needs be.

[Foulsmell 120]

Mine runs noticeably quieter and smoother on Vpower than Momentum. I've tried a few tanks back to back now just to check I wasn't imagining it.

You also get better rewards with the Shell card which offsets the higher cost a bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

We only use VPower ourselves and recommend the same. Also find this performs the best and also the most consistently of all pump fuels we've used.

 

Thanks

 

Mike