Carver 16 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Yours is a 2012 car though Lauren isn't it? They had different maps to 2013 onwards cars I've been led to believe as the afr is different on 12 and 62 plate cars when dyno'd to anything 13 onwards. In effect the 2012 cars are mapped!Now thats interesting! Mines a 2012 as well. How can we confirm this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Yours is a 2012 car though Lauren isn't it? They had different maps to 2013 onwards cars I've been led to believe as the afr is different on 12 and 62 plate cars when dyno'd to anything 13 onwards. In effect the 2012 cars are mapped!Mine is a 2013 car, though obviously made in 2012. But Keith and Jamie's are 2012 cars too IIRC. Does this mean a remap is pointless on a pre-2013 car then and we can't extract more power from them? Seems unlikely to me. Edited November 8, 2015 by Lauren Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeB 79 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Mine is 2014 with auto box and fitted with hks air filter, full milltek resonated with overpipe change. Remapped on rolling road with unleaded 204 bhp then run on vpower and remapped again 211bhp. Sorted torque curve which is what I wanted. Coming from biking back ground you always matched the fueling with your filter and exhaust for more power and always more power if run in properly.only way to know Lauren is get it mapped on the dyno by somebody you trust to do it properly as there's to many different opinions and also different dynos give different figures.But as you have you proven yours is making good power and is it worth spending the money for extra 10 bhp + !!....and you won the sprint champ against remapped cars!.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carver 16 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Hehe. As always this comes back to driver trainkng is better value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Now thats interesting! Mines a 2012 as well. How can we confirm this?As far as I'm aware you can't - apart from running it on a dyno and seeing what your afr and HP figures are anyway.Mine is a 2013 car, though obviously made in 2012. But Keith and Jamie's are 2012 cars too IIRC. Does this mean a remap is pointless on a pre-2013 car then and we can't extract more power from them? Seems unlikely to me. I'm only relaying the info I had from talking to Mike at TD yesterday. The 12 and 62 plate cars they've run have shown more power than the 13 onwards cars and different afr readings. The post 13 cars show more of a usual Toyota afr reading whereas the pre 13 cars show differently. Alec's car is a prime example - his shows amazing readings for a car with just a drop in filter - readings that haven't been seen on post 13 cars (that they've run). Obviously one of the issues is knowing exactly when a car is from - maybe it was just a small batch at the start that had different maps and so some 12 and 62 plates don't show it. It's difficult to know how long a car has sat around since build until registration - some 13 and even 63 plates maybe part of that initial batch. Again, I suspect we'll never know for sure but some cars will seem extra healthy on the dyno compared to others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shiftspark 41 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 I thought that the early cars had the newer maps done at a service to fix the earlier running issues ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 I thought that the early cars had the newer maps done at a service to fix the earlier running issues ??Mybe that only changed aspects of the map? Any of our resident mapping guru's have any thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Church 209 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Gringosteve: Simply ecutek had way more info and way sooner available to them, unlike Tactrix/OFT/romraider crowd, that had to reverse-engineer everything by themselves. Yes, they managed to find most of important features, like finding/mapping/changing performance related tables for eg. cam & fueling timing, even some extra features like flat foot shifting/launch control (at least on some tune versions), but some features remain exclusive to ecutek. 1 Gringosteve reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foulsmell 120 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 A proper remap should be done on both dyno and road. There doesn't seem to be many who do this for the 86. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 You really need to see whole graphs to make any sense, just plugging peak HP and Tq figures doesn't mean much. I bet Lauren's just has a strong engine.... Love the ease at with which you can swap maps with ecuTek. Wonder why the other options can't do this or the other features?It's what you're paying for, their ability to programme the ECU and the extra features that they have (not just the ones you lot "use"). ECUtek is more than just simply reflashing like the other "Opensource" options.Mybe that only changed aspects of the map? Any of our resident mapping guru's have any thoughts? No changes to fuel map or ignition timing on any of the European cars/calibrations. Even the newer MY2015- type calibrations, which aren't backward compatible, are the same. I can post them all up if anyone is really that bothered...A proper remap should be done on both dyno and road. There doesn't seem to be many who do this for the 86.Abbey do this. Mark dyno tunes and then you can send road logs in to be reviewed, best and most cost effective way. It's also not much more expensive (if at all) than other "road" tunes. 2 Foulsmell and Gringosteve reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gringosteve 213 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 No differences on the 2012 cars then? Mine is a 2012 but never dyno'd it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 No differences on the 2012 cars then? Mine is a 2012 but never dyno'd itNo, no changes to any of the maps that impact performance. I've compare all the main tables with all C series (US Manual), all G series (Euro/Aus Manual) and the related autos (D/I) and there are no differences in any of the main maps on any of the revisions. 1 Gringosteve reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie_GRMN 177 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Mine is a 2013 car, though obviously made in 2012. But Keith and Jamie's are 2012 cars too IIRC. Does this mean a remap is pointless on a pre-2013 car then and we can't extract more power from them? Seems unlikely to me. Mines a 2014 car Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foulsmell 120 Report post Posted November 8, 2015 Is there any correlation between mileage and power? Like the vtec engines when they loosen up. Lauren has a lot of miles on hers I think. Don't know about the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carver 16 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Knightrider, thanks for all this info. and checking the tables. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 Is there any correlation between mileage and power? Like the vtec engines when they loosen up. Lauren has a lot of miles on hers I think. Don't know about the others.Not really no. Mine made the same power at 10K miles and the same again at 74K miles. Sorry Jamie, didn't realise, bloody private plates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foulsmell 120 Report post Posted November 9, 2015 They must make power on a stock car as the Cosworth stage one guaranties 10bhp on what's virtually stock car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted November 11, 2015 @Lauren I think you are getting way too caught up on what Jamie and I got on our dynos compared to yours, as we all know each car is different and a great example is Alec with only an air filter was getting more than all of us. Have you actually had your car dyno'd when completely stock, no, so who's to say that you car wasn't performing better than ours when completely stock and with your current mods have happened to push yours higher than myself and Jamie? I did test my car with also just a drop in air filter and then once again after the exhaust and remap and I did see gains: Yes, since then I've had another remap with some tweaks to the map (and I still think that there's a possibility that my crash may have affected the car in some way or another) and it has dropped a couple of hp but that doesn't prove that remaps are pointless and again, at no point has anyone said that they'd WANT to make less power, I'm just not moaning about it like some other people might because as I said, my goal was never to chase after hp, I'm more about the drive-ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 I honestly don't think I'm getting caught up on anything, Keith. My car made more than Alec's did btw. The probability of your crash affecting your engine's performance is incredibly unlikely. It will be the case that your second remap cost you power in comparison with your first. That will be what it is. There is no way on this earth that I would be happy if I remapped my car and ended up with less power than I had now. That would be mad wouldn't it? The reality is that the driveability of a stock car is absolutely fine, so it's not like it's a problem and a remap should increase power as why would anyone spend £500 to get less? I know I wouldn't. I never said remaps are pointless. But if you are happy to pay a fair amount of money to make less power, that's fine. I didn't have my car on the rolling road when it was completely stock, my exhaust and induction kit were put on before I took delivery of the car. I put it on the rollers at 10K miles which was when I had the overpipe and second cat delete done. Intererestingly the first time we put our car on the rollers back when my car had done 10K, I still got the highest power on that day (more than Alec) for an NA and I also got more than someone who had a Litchfield remap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 @Keethos perhaps you're down on power due to having the air filter in for much longer than recommended which could potentially be acting as a restriction? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 @Tareim could be, never really thought about that. @Lauren sorry, I was referring to Alec getting more than those who were stock (myself included at the time) and even some of those from Litchfield, but it does seem that it is yourself who keeps on bringing up the fact that you got more than Jamie and myself without a remap. The way you write you posts does suggest that it is pointless if you don't gain hp, but you are comparing against different cars, yes it's good to get an idea on how you're car is doing compared to others but surely it's more about your own before and after. But as both of us has mentioned, your car was never dyno'd before all the mods so we have no idea how your car was performing stock so we don't know how much gains you've achieved from your current mods and we'll never know if you'll get any gains if you get a remap now unless you try it. Fair enough, if you aren't willing to risk money on the off chance that you won't gain anything from a remap which I highly doubt then that's your decision, but what I'm trying to say is don't let what Jamie and myself got on that dyno day deter you from trying it out. And also, I've never questioned the driveability of the stock car wasn't fine, but I'm definitely saying that the remap has improved it, but that's what I wanted, if it's not what you want, fair enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 On 08/11/2015, 09:45:28, Lauren said: 3 hours ago, Lauren said: I honestly don't think I'm getting caught up on anything, Keith. My car made more than Alec's did btw. The probability of your crash affecting your engine's performance is incredibly unlikely. It will be the case that your second remap cost you power in comparison with your first. That will be what it is. There is no way on this earth that I would be happy if I remapped my car and ended up with less power than I had now. That would be mad wouldn't it? The reality is that the driveability of a stock car is absolutely fine, so it's not like it's a problem and a remap should increase power as why would anyone spend £500 to get less? I know I wouldn't. I never said remaps are pointless. But if you are happy to pay a fair amount of money to make less power, that's fine. I didn't have my car on the rolling road when it was completely stock, my exhaust and induction kit were put on before I took delivery of the car. I put it on the rollers at 10K miles which was when I had the overpipe and second cat delete done. Intererestingly the first time we put our car on the rollers back when my car had done 10K, I still got the highest power on that day (more than Alec) for an NA and I also got more than someone who had a Litchfield remap. Just to throw a spanner into the works. I've been thinking about getting a remap on my car and have had the remap on my insurance since January. However, we did a rolling road day last Sunday at Tuning Developments. My car made more power than the remapped cars. All three of us have similar mods, induction, 2nd decat and an exhaust system. Just to make it more interesting, my car made 201.6bhp having covered 75K miles. It made exactly the same power as it did on the same rollers at 10K miles. Of the two remaps, one was 199.6bhp and the other 195.4bhp (IIRC). If I was going to have a remap then I'd want my car to make more power, not less. So I remain somewhat unconvinced. Both of these remaps were done by Fensport on the road rather than using a rolling road. For comparison on the same rollers a stock car made 189bhp. Dont forget the exact same dyno can vary with environmental conditions and time. That intake you have Lauren confuses the ECU into thinking less air is going into the engine that actually is, so it runs leaner than the map in ECU is set to run at, which is one way to get some more power from a remap because these engine run very rich. Because of this you might see less gains than 10-12 hp from a remap. I see your point here. I never bothered with a remap (and I dont have an intake) because the cost of a licence and tune (~£500) didnt seem worth it for 10-12hp. I do suspect your car is a particularly good one and coupled with the miltek and intake you've probably added 10hp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 I will post my graph later, on a dd rr stock car made 170bhp and mine was 197.8bhp. So an increase of 27bhp, from Fensport remap and the exhaust / manifold changes some of you have seen. Very controversial subject but IMHO it's how it drives vs what you like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 That sounds about right for a remap and exhaust. If I was staying NA I would have probably got a remap but I put it towards a FI solution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 I am aware of the issue with the Injen and it leaning out the air, but that's just a bonus really. I suppose my point is that I would expect a remap to gain me power everywhere pretty much. Not only filling in the gaps in regard to advance and fueling but also giving me more power overall including more peak horsepower. Yes I obviously have a good engine. I was careful with the running in and no I didn't follow the daftness of not going over 4000rpm for the first 1000miles. The £500 cost doesn't particularly bother me but obviously I want it to be money at least reasonably well spent! @Keith, I'm not having a go, but I was surprised at both your's and Jamie's cars putting out less than mine. It's not what I'd expect after all. But I would have to admit, I do think it's totally pointless if you don't gain power and actually lose it. A step in the wrong direction I would call it. I would also add that though my car has gained power over stock, it's obvious why really. If my car was stock it would make less power than it does now. The power of stock cars on the rollers seems to be pretty consistent after all. I'm sure you didn't want less power than you had before though Keith? If you can live with that, that's cool, but I know I wouldn't be happy with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
