NA ECU tuning

[KevinA 695]

10 minutes ago, Camilz said:

a UEL manifold fixes the dip

But loses a bit higher up, options ehh

[Foulsmell 120]

You can easily drive around it, that's for sure. The gear ratios will keep you neatly above it. But I don't want to be screaming around all the time - would be nice to have a bit more flexibility for - say - overtaking on the road.

More to the point I'm just curious why it's there. Driven plenty of cars with vtec type stepped power delivery, but this ones quite unusual in being reasonably torquey low down, revvy at the top, but a bit flat in the middle.

Final drive?

The cats create the dip. Same with K20 honda engines.

[Camilz 15]

well from one of the charts I saw on fensport, it still gains net vs stock, just less than what an EL manifold will give you:

http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_108/Category_4/5041

Really isn't much, but au contraire, you don't "lose" HP... I think, im just going by what ive seen :P. worth asking people who have installed them, ( i'm planning to in the not so distant future)

-edit- Just seen you have an EL, My bad lol in your case yeah you'd lose ponies

Edited November 13, 2015 by Camilz
update

[shiftspark 41]

53 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Lap times are far more complicated than that though. You can see where Kev and I have been quicker than far more powerful cars a lot of the time and also quicker than the forced induction times. Lap times depend far more on the driver and their ability etc. There's also the matter of suspension and setup, so way too many variables to focus on power modifications in isolation. 

In regard to the 'torque dip', I'm not sure why people worry about it. If you're driving quickly you are always above it. If you're not, you're below it most of the time. The only time I notice it a little is accelerating in 6th gear on the motorway, where it doesn't really matter that much. 

My mods are: 

Injen Induction kit. Full Milltek system, 2nd decat and over pipe. Then there's my suspension stuff and very light wheels. 

I get what your saying Lauren, on my clio that I sprinted for a few years a change from T1R to AD08 tyres was 1.5 secs quicker compared to throttle bodies that made only 5/10ths difference (+15hp).

As always the driver makes all the difference.

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

Lauren in your mods list you say you hive light wheels are they Rota's? :-D

[Kodename47 446]

57 minutes ago, Foulsmell said:

The cats create the dip. Same with K20 honda engines.

 

Not really, it's manifold runner lengths (Both I & E) that cause the dip.

[Foulsmell 120]

57 minutes ago, Foulsmell said: The cats create the dip. Same with K20 honda engines.

 

Not really, it's manifold runner lengths (Both I & E) that cause the dip.

I shouldn't assume

[Lauren 2259]

43 minutes ago, Mark-in-Stoke said:

Lauren in your mods list you say you hive light wheels are they Rota's? :-D

I should have added that they are light weight forged wheels as that would clear it up a bit eh? ;)

[Mike 458]

4 hours ago, KevinA said:

If you look at TSS results between stock class and mildly modified you get a good idea of lap time differences.

There's not much point looking at my times, considering my final run was 0.2s off my best and I lost pretty much a whole second at the start and then out braked myself going up to Park doesn't say much for my quickest :P

[Leejay-b 1]

11 hours ago, Foulsmell said:

 

People say this about TDI Ns dyno but they were given a Mugen civic M20 and the dyno read the exact factory power figures so it can't be that far out.

Ariel go there too to have their cars developed so they wouldn't use them

If they were giving is inaccurate readings

Their dyno is accurate and they are well know for tuning... Saying it reads high isn't a negative because it's consistent so great for a tuning tool.

On the civic forums I use it appears that 200-250 bhp civics run at TDi North show on average 10 plus bhp more than the people that use dyno dynamics at Eurospec or Surrey rolling road for the same tuning modifications. You can't directly compare different dynos, but there is a strong patturn of this.

Quite likely the M20 would have shown less power at Eurospec. 

Is one dyno high, or is the other one low... Who knows...

 

[Leejay-b 1]

2 hours ago, Foulsmell said:

 

I shouldn't assume

Also compounded by Honda choosing to have a slight dip to make vtec feel better.

My civic has the dip mapped out so a smooth transition, and also lowered vtec to 4000 rpm, which makes a massive difference to the mid range.

How does the variable timing system work on the FA20, is this improved in mapping to increase midrange, or is it already well set up as standard?

[Deacon 1357]

Sort of on topic but how come TDI north came into this topic? Do they do much 86 / BRZ stuff?

[Foulsmell 120]

Sort of on topic but how come TDI north came into this topic? Do they do much 86 / BRZ stuff?

I've never heard of them doing any. I know Tdi South do.

[Foulsmell 120]

2 hours ago, Foulsmell said:  

I shouldn't assume

My civic has the dip mapped out so a smooth transition, and also lowered vtec to 4000 rpm, which makes a massive difference to the mid range.

Me too

[Tareim 343]

49 minutes ago, Deacon said:

Sort of on topic but how come TDI north came into this topic? Do they do much 86 / BRZ stuff?

I brought it up as a point that you can't compare dyno results from different dyno's as when Lauren had her AE86 on the dyno at TD Mike said that if it were at TDI North it would've read a little bit more

[Deacon 1357]

1 hour ago, Tareim said:

I brought it up as a point that you can't compare dyno results from different dyno's as when Lauren had her AE86 on the dyno at TD Mike said that if it were at TDI North it would've read a little bit more

Ah. That makes sense now! Cheers Sam!

[Kodename47 446]

2 hours ago, Leejay-b said:

How does the variable timing system work on the FA20, is this improved in mapping to increase midrange, or is it already well set up as standard?

Dual AVCS, so both intake and exhaust cams. Want to see an example? Go grab stock files and the OFT tunes and a copy of Romraider. There is power to be made with the cams, even on a standard setup.

[Leejay-b 1]

Pic from Hyper Rev magazine.

ECU tune only from Auto-craft.net. Sorry all the text is in Japanese so no other info, but shows similar claimed gains to other tuners.

[Church 209]

Regarding comparing different dynos .. simplest thing is to have some baseline .. eg. "unmodified stock car". And comparing gains not by absolute numbers but rather retative gains in % above that baseline. Of course that's still rough compare with many variables unknown, as not just dynos can read different, difference may be made up also from ambient humidity/temps run is performed, baseline cars may produce diferent output, "unmodified stock" may mean different things eg. for some it's with drop in filter and tune, for some - completely stock and so on ..

[Leejay-b 1]

Also might be worth contacting the main known tuners for the GT86. For example Fensport, Abbey Motorpsort and TDI North. Maybe ask what most standard cars put out, and what the generic estimate is for a map only, or map and 2nd decat / manifold.