GT86 Alternatives, Pros and Cons

[KobayashiMaru 28]

Since my brother got his 86 last year I really started missing RWD and every time I drive it I find something more I like about it, my confidence grows and I'm able to cross country quickly with it when the opportunity arises. Definitely a car that trains it's driver, forcing you to up your game. So I started at looking at getting one myself, monitoring prices, looking at options, etc. But then I started to think what else could I get for the money. If it's bhp per £ I want, which it's not what the 86 is about, it's a Golf R that's the obvious choice. But even though I haven't driven one, a Cupra R which isn't 4wd but is the same engine and similar power is a bit easy to go quick and on the road. Even driving hard on the road you never find it's true limit.

The only real RWD alternative, which I had completely forgotten about is the M135/235i (M240i is still too much used at the moment). I started to look and there's lots of used about at similar used facelift 86 money (£21k-£25k) and it looks a real option. Has more power, bigger engine, nicer inside, etc but I have preconceptions about it and why there's quite a few about and negative points to getting one. I have not driven one so it's an assumption.

• Lots were leased so are bog standard spec. Lots of common bits are extras. This bumps up the price of a used one considerably.
• It may have power (320bhp) but it's 1530kg so heavier than the 86 and with electric steering and that weight I'd guess the steering feel would be quite numb in comparison. Braking feel would be compromised too
• No LSD as standard and is a £2000 option. £900+ if you get a Quaife fitted
• Mapping for power is a tack on box, rather than a proper map. Or it was when I last looked.
• Fake engine noise through speakers. 86 has noise pumped in but at least it's from the intake.
• Driving position in BMW's isn't always good, All the ones I driven in the past have my legs to the side, rather than inline with the wheel. I have size 13 feet so pedals are a problem too.
• Running costs - More tax, more fuel, more insurance, servicing is every 20k but expensive. other consumables are expensive too but then it's a "premium" product.
• Don't see many M235i's about but you do BMW's. They've almost become a white good and it seems everyone has one. Mostly businessmen and middle aged women.
• We have one BMW dealer in 100 miles and they charge what they like.

Has anyone driven one to compare it to the 86?

After writing all this I find this video and answers a lot of my questions. Says he has a turbo 86. Anyone on here?

I've had a few have a go at me for thinking of getting an 86 as power wise from my current car it's a step back but they forget in stock tune it's the same but with more torque. Lots slating it for having a cheap interior, some buttons looking aftermarket, etc but for a cheap Japanese car I think it's fine and is on par with my Skoda. Plus I'd be losing space but with seats down I could fit my bike in the 86 with no issues. Anything I didn't like such as brakes, suspension, engine bits are available, easy to change and has the usual slippery modifying slope. the BMW has some room for improvement but costs to do this would be quite high. With a turbo on SC the 86 would I think be as fast but sharper to drive. I don't often do long motorway journeys and it's all road in mid Wales which are all great.

What was the thought process of everyone else who decided on an 86 and what else they tried as an alternative?. All my experiences of the 86 so far have been positive. Just think the general person is negative on it.

 

[Paul 442]

If you want an '86, get one. Who gives a toss what other people think? Sure it's not the most powerful car per &, but it's the most engaging and fun to drive. And how much of that massive power can you actually use anyway?

Someone else on here sold the GT86 and got a Golf R. Lasted 6 months before they swapped back. The Golf R is, by all accounts, a boring lump to drive,

[Cerastes 204]

Loads of other RWD cars out there. BMW are expensive. Honda S2000, MX5's, RX7 etc.  

[Bfranklyn86 52]

Nobody going to mention the Cayman S? 

I think in terms of value for money then getting a cheapish 2nd hand 86 then going turbo/SC - you'll be as fast as the golf R, but in a better driving, better looking RWD car.

I went through a phase of considering selling my supercharged 86, but the cars that would offer a significant improvement  were much much more money (exige, new Cayman S or Cayman R, M235i).

The TTRS is good bhp vs ££, but I'm told not much of a drivers car.

[Cerastes 204]

How much is the Cayman S to insure, petrol, tax etc? and not to mention the Porsche parts will be very expensive I would have thought. 

[Church 209]

In my eyes only closest alternative to GT86 from new cars is MX5. In it you exchange even less practicality for slightly even more driving fun. Similar price range. Everything rest - not being made anymore, or costs much more, so not sure, if can be directly compared.

[Cerastes 204]

I never test drove the new MX5, I still want to. 

[Deacon 1357]

1 hour ago, Cerastes said:

I never test drove the new MX5, I still want to. 

I thought the engine was a lot better than ours - would love to see how one with the BBR kit is. However the total lack of any storage space in the cabin would drive me nuts. 

If they'd both been around when I was buying my 86 I can see I may well have gone for the ND RF instead based on the drive. But the few days I spent in the various model ND's definitely made me think the storage space thing would really do my head in.

[Lauren 2259]

I think you have to work out on balance what you want. Are you a driver? Does driving quickly and by that I mean through corners, balancing the car, invoking and managing a slight drift etc float your boat? Or do you prefer mashing the throttle and going very fast indeed in a straight line, with corners spoiling your fun? 

If it's the former then GT86, if it's the latter BMW. You can even get an 8 speed auto M135i, to make the SLJ stuff easier.

[Cerastes 204]

21 minutes ago, Deacon said:

I thought the engine was a lot better than ours - would love to see how one with the BBR kit is. However the total lack of any storage space in the cabin would drive me nuts. 

If they'd both been around when I was buying my 86 I can see I may well have gone for the ND RF instead based on the drive. But the few days I spent in the various model ND's definitely made me think the storage space thing would really do my head in.

The MX5 does look quite small and cramped inside, but that wouldn't really bother me. I'm quite a small/slim guy. I don't carry a lot either  

Maybe one day I'll get an MX5... or I find a girlfriend who drives one and we can switch cars now and then  

[Nicebiscuit 655]

You should try a 135i. It's an underrated car, but quite different to the 86. I ran a 120d coupe for several years and I loved it. Very refined, comfy and well screwed together and small enough to be fun.

 

The 135i is a junior M3 really. That BMW six is a lovely engine. And Birds will fit a proper LSD if you want to go sideways.

 

Only a test drive will tell you...

 

 

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[KobayashiMaru 28]

34 minutes ago, Lauren said:

I think you have to work out on balance what you want. Are you a driver? Does driving quickly and by that I mean through corners, balancing the car, invoking and managing a slight drift etc float your boat? Or do you prefer mashing the throttle and going very fast indeed in a straight line, with corners spoiling your fun? 

If it's the former then GT86, if it's the latter BMW. You can even get an 8 speed auto M135i, to make the SLJ stuff easier.

For me it's all about the corners and chaining them together successfully. I had to use the 86 for a week while my vRS was having some work done and I didn't really miss the power. The only thing that changes is overtakes are a bit harder but just take more thought. I never overtake unless I know it's on, so on the roads I know I will always aim to do it at the same points and I was still able to pass at those same points. It would just be an easier pass in the vRS as it's got way more torque. Again it's another car that's way too easy to go fast in as I know all it's quirks as I've had it 2 years. As a car I can't do any more in it plus it's getting on a bit so I'm after a new challenge. 

I've owned a DSG car before and I would own one if it was the only option but I've heel and toe'd since passing my test 11 years ago and something I enjoy doing. Bet it's something the majority of turbo hot hatch drivers don't even know about, let alone know how to do.

[Deacon 1357]

46 minutes ago, Cerastes said:

The MX5 does look quite small and cramped inside, but that wouldn't really bother me. I'm quite a small/slim guy. I don't carry a lot either  

There was literally not even anywhere for my phone or wallet in the cabin - that's what I meant by it'd do my head in!

[Winged Eel 3]

I've had a GT86 for 3.5 years and recently thought about changing it. I narrowed it down to a facelift GT86, a Golf R and an M135i. I test drove both of the latter. The Golf R was refined, quick and had a surprisingly good ride quality. The M135i was fine until you started to push hard and then it started to get a bit untidy. In my opinion a great engine waiting for a great chassis. The Golf was tempting but I didn't think it had the same finesse as the GT86. A great car, though. In the end, as my car is low mileage, I decided to spend some money on some mods and keep it for a bit longer. The nice problem is that the GT86 spoils you and it's difficult to find something that is as good a driver's car until you start to spend a lot more money. Although I haven't driven the facelifted car, I've seen it at the showroom and the interior is now much better (with the exception of the crappy audio head unit and the stereo). What I struggle to understand is that Toyota changed the interior, the exterior, and the handling but the one thing most people wanted them to do - give the engine some more power - they didn't. I think an extra 20% would really complement the car without spoiling what makes it what it is. 

[Church 209]

I find stock power sufficient. When daily driving, torque dip a bit bothers, but absolutely non issue on track, with rpms never dropping below 4K. And to me it's more fun having to row gears to keep in powerband if i want faster acceleration for eg. overtakes, then heaps of power from forced induction available at lazy pedal command and going alongside much higher price of car / upkeep / insurance.

I'd rather wish they would add stock camber adjustment.

[Cerastes 204]

I would like a bigger fuel tank. 

[Kodename47 446]

I drove a M235i on a very wet Goodwood, great fun car and unless you enjoy finding the limits of the 86 then I'd say that the BMW is the better car all round. I considered the switch. The engine in the BMW is actually a peach that likes to rev, I have heard the 240i's engine isn't quite as good in that regard. It handled well in the wet and wasn't the complete handful that the M4 was. Maybe I can see what @Lauren said about it being a point and squirt. but it has much more grip so I also have no doubt that it would be quicker in corners than the 86, after all BMW do know how to make a driver's car. There's still enough power to overwhelm the rear tyres and luckily it isn't just a complete torque monster that is hard to deal with. The only problem with it is that it doesn't look special enough, but then some like a Q car..... 

Having spoken to @Rich196 about his 135i, it wasn't well sorted for track work out of the box. Had overheating issues, even 1M's were susceptible. Seemed that wasn't the focus of the 1 series coupes. The M135i/235i's were pounding Goodwood all day and are regularly run on similar days. They seem to have sorted the issues that affected the 1st 1 series generation. Even the racing driver tutors spoke fondly of the baby M cars. I was just annoyed that I couldn't compare it to the M2 as there wasn't one to try on the day.

[Rich196 103]

@KobayashiMaru

I echo what @knightryder has said.

My 135i E82 coupe was an epic monster. Being lightly breathed on it was 420hp and 500+ llbft. This is in the territory of keeping up with GTR's and F430s. Mine had a lot of work done on the chassis side which made it and epic road car and a fairly good track car! The guy who sold it to me changed to a M135i hatch as soon as they came out as he had kids. We have had them both out on track at the same time. He was on adaptive suspension and his car out the box matched my older car with all the work done. The chassis tech moves on a hell of a lot.

The two big problems with the 135i on track is, keeping temps under control when your mapped. Stock seems to be fine. The second is steering from the rear by throttle, the car has a staggered setup, 225 front 255 rear, and an open diff. This just leads to push understeer. I would have the M performace LSD in it if I got one, and maybe a square setup.

 

However my 135i being my weekend car, wasn't special enough for me, my charged 86 puts a bigger smile on my face and feels more special. It is more of a drivers car than the BMW as you really need to drive it to get the best out of it, and its light and responsive.

 

If am honest, I would have a M135i, M235i over the 86 for a daily, but as a second toy the 86 wins.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Deacon said:

I thought the engine was a lot better than ours - would love to see how one with the BBR kit is. However the total lack of any storage space in the cabin would drive me nuts. 

If they'd both been around when I was buying my 86 I can see I may well have gone for the ND RF instead based on the drive. But the few days I spent in the various model ND's definitely made me think the storage space thing would really do my head in.

A good friend of mine had the ND treated with a BBR map, exhaust, midpipe and manifold. The torque is produced for a 2.0L NA was incredible. Simply just place your foot on the pedal and it picked up no matter what gear. The inline engine made it a much nicer car to drive. The interior is also a lot nicer, with Bose etc. However, it's simply not as practical.

[un1eash 9]

I swapped my E92 320d M Sport for the GT86 and never really got on with the GT86, it wasn't just the power as the car can shift but the practicality for me as a daily. I wanted something with 4+ doors and test drove a few cars but kept going back to BMW. I test drove an early N55 320PS/332ftlb M135i and wasn't blown away by its interior quality and road handling as it felt floaty at speed.

I went looking at used BMW's a couple weeks ago and ended up buying a new B58 340PS/369ftlb M140i 5dr and I love it. Its a great family commuter and a proper rocket when you use the loud pedal. The engine just wants to go and pulls hard all the way to the limiter, its easily the fastest car ive ever had and never lets up. It feels so much more planted then the M135i I tested and the interior is similar to that in a 3/4 series now in terms of quality. They did a little work to the chassis in the M140i to make it more stable like the M235i/M240i.

In reply to some of your comments above, yes there is fake sound but this has been turned down on the M140i. The engine and exhaust sounds great with burbles and pops on lift off and auto blip on down shifts. Servicing is every 2 years or 18k miles and not as expensive as you would think, tax is the same or cheaper (auto) then the GT86, I get the same mpg around town and better on the motorway in the BMW, insurance is the same for me. They are quite common due to the decent PCP deals but I like the understated looks. The pedals are offset to the right which they weren't in my E92 or our F11 and has taken a little time to get use to this.

Overall very happy with the M140i as its my only car now and ticks all the boxes from what I want.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

 

Though to be fair... the BMW is a fair bit more money. I think given the choice of a brand new M240i or a brand new GT86 as a daily driver I'd take the BMW - but it's a lot more cash so where do you draw the line? I'd rather a Cayman S than either

As for the 140i I bet it's brilliant to own but I can't help feel BMW make the 1 series deliberately ugly to give customers a reason to trade up. They really could try harder. Though at least it doesn't look like that godawful 2 series people carrier thing

 

Wouldn't swap the 86 for a Golf of any kind though... Just too sensible. If I had money for a Golf R I'd just keep the 86 for weekends and buy a nice comfy sensible Skoda Octavia with the change

 

 

 

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[Carbon Ninja 0]

I would personally stay with the GT86, i made the mistake to change to 350z. Still fun and balanced but the GT86 have more useable fun in day to day drive. Feedback amazing and feel me with confidence in most places I go. It is a car that I feel it challenge me to push it just a bit harder to go that little bit quicker everytime.

 

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[un1eash 9]

42 minutes ago, Nicebiscuit said:

 

 

Though to be fair... the BMW is a fair bit more money. I think given the choice of a brand new M240i or a brand new GT86 as a daily driver I'd take the BMW - but it's a lot more cash so where do you draw the line? I'd rather a Cayman S than either

As for the 140i I bet it's brilliant to own but I can't help feel BMW make the 1 series deliberately ugly to give customers a reason to trade up. They really could try harder. Though at least it doesn't look like that godawful 2 series people carrier thing

 

 

Wouldn't swap the 86 for a Golf of any kind though... Just too sensible. If I had money for a Golf R I'd just keep the 86 for weekends and buy a nice comfy sensible Skoda Octavia with the change

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not sure on new GT86 discounts but with finance and dealer contributions I paid £26.5k OTR for my M140i which includes £1.5k of options. 

Once I can get away with 2 seats again I'll be revisiting the Cayman option.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

42 minutes ago, Nicebiscuit said:  

 

Though to be fair... the BMW is a fair bit more money. I think given the choice of a brand new M240i or a brand new GT86 as a daily driver I'd take the BMW - but it's a lot more cash so where do you draw the line? I'd rather a Cayman S than either

As for the 140i I bet it's brilliant to own but I can't help feel BMW make the 1 series deliberately ugly to give customers a reason to trade up. They really could try harder. Though at least it doesn't look like that godawful 2 series people carrier thing

 

 

Wouldn't swap the 86 for a Golf of any kind though... Just too sensible. If I had money for a Golf R I'd just keep the 86 for weekends and buy a nice comfy sensible Skoda Octavia with the change

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Not sure on new GT86 discounts but with finance and dealer contributions I paid £26.5k OTR for my M140i which includes £1.5k of options. 

Once I can get away with 2 seats again I'll be revisiting the Cayman option.

 

Not sure what's on offer these days but I paid a lot lot less than that for my (admittedly poverty spec) 86.

 

Which feels about right. That BMW is a lot of car for the money nonetheless. Even in my 120d coupe I used to wonder what the point of owning a bigger/posher BMW would be. The only thing I felt I was missing was a six pot...

 

And returning to the original question, if I could get away with 2 seats I'd be in an MX5. A superb bargain, a proper sportscar, and a soft top as well. I'm sure it's not quite the drivers car the 86 is but would be near enough for me and even smaller and lighter. Lovely.

 

 

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[KobayashiMaru 28]

My only issue with a Cayman is it's a pure sports car so isn't practical enough for me as a daily. They say the 86 isn't but the boot space for what it is, is decent especially seats down. Driving position is also important for me as I've driven cars before with pedal offsets and within a few miles my knees are in bits. The 86 is one of few cars I can drive for a while and not have my knees start to hurt. 

Given prices on used Skoda's at the moment I could end up keeping it and buy an older 86 instead, one around £15k but then that means two cars, two insurances, servicing, tax, MOT, ect which is something I really don't want to do again. I could get an M235i but would be budget stretched but I also notice the prices vary quite a bit. I often hear people getting BMW's for less than list price but that's never reflected when it comes to buying one used. Unless people are just trying their luck.