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gavin_t

Oil coolers / baffled sumps

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Looking to get my car more "track safe" with an oil cooler this year meaning I can spend less time worrying about oil temps.

So far following my discussion with some suppliers the HKS kit is the leader.

Just wondered if anyone else is running this kit and had any thoughts on it?

 

Also baffled sumps and larger oil pick ups. Worth while on a road and track car? Or a bit over kill if only running on standard road tyres etc?



Thanks
Gavin

 

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I have the HKS kit that sits behind the front-right fog light opening. Build quality seems excellent, no rubbing issues from the hoses on the airbox as it's properly designed and uses a banjo connection. Last winter trackday I did oil temperatures were barely getting over 100! Also fairly easy to block off the intake if you need to, although I haven't bothered so far.

The installation needs some plastics trimming behind the bumper slightly, and a hole cut in the wheel arch trim for a mesh to go on (for the heat to exhaust out of the back of the cooler). All documented in the instructions.

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Personally I don't rate HKS kit. Was good in the 90’s but not impressed with the last 10 years of their kit. And I don't think there is anything wrong with the stock pickup.

I got the Cosworth sump baffle and a Mishimoto thermostatic oil cooler. Job done. Decent kit and worry free track days :)

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Interesting that there is mixed views on the HKS kit. It was top of my list as it was recommended by abbey and is something they can fit whilst my car is in for other work.

 

However the HKS kit is a lot more expensive then the other offerings so was wondering if it is worth the premium.

 

As for the baffled sump as I am not running super sticky tyres I was debating the need for one or not....

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I have an oil pressure gauge in my eyeline and only ever noticed pressure dropping at Coram at Snetterton, when I was using AD08R tyres on a really warm day. It wasn't dropping that fast but it was coming down. Never noticed it anywhere else.

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23 hours ago, maurice said:

I have an oil pressure gauge in my eyeline and only ever noticed pressure dropping at Coram at Snetterton, when I was using AD08R tyres on a really warm day. It wasn't dropping that fast but it was coming down. Never noticed it anywhere else.

Long corner taken at sustained fairly high RPM I suppose. Some good info from first hand experience.

I presume you don't have a sump baffle @maurice

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27 minutes ago, gavin_t said:

Long corner taken at sustained fairly high RPM I suppose. Some good info from first hand experience.

I presume you don't have a sump baffle @maurice

No I don't. I did get a Cosworth one delivered but the build quality was shocking, full of metal shards stuck to all of the welds, had to return it. PartBox told me their whole batch was the same. 

Mark at Abbey has suggested an accusump as an alternative but I haven't really looked into it as it doesn't seem to be necessary for my cornering speeds.

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Just now, maurice said:

No I don't. I did get a Cosworth one delivered but the build quality was shocking, full of metal shards stuck to all of the welds, had to return it. PartBox told me their whole batch was the same. 

Mark at Abbey has suggested an accusump as an alternative but I haven't really looked into it as it doesn't seem to be necessary for my cornering speeds.

 

I remember you saying about their shocking QC now. FA20 have enough issues with crap floating around in the oil without that :lol:

Just checked my quote and its the cosworth sump that was in the estimate from Abbey with a killer uprated pickup pipe. I think I may leave it for now and just get the oil cooler and BBK. Can always jump back in for the sump if I decide to fit bigger sticker rubber in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the oil cooler there is a big difference in price between the HKS one and the likes of the tuning developments and HEL offerings at about half the price.

I know some people have commented on certain ones running too cold but is this not just thermostat related?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

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iirc even with a thermostat they are always slightly open, which means they run colder. Don't listen to people who say oil has to get to 100c to burn off condensation though - if that was the case puddles would never evaporate from the street, but they do.

The cheap HEL kits and possibly TD (I'm not sure) use generic angled couplings which have clearance issues with the airbox, and lot of people have to hack it up to prevent rubbing. I think Deacon spent a fortune making up a custom airbox to get around it. What you're getting with the HKS kit is a bit more thought put into it, and where the cooler goes.

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Yep all the oil cooler thermostats let a little oil past even when closed. This is to better balance the temp difference to prevent thermal shock of the thermostat opening and then suddenly a load of cold oil rushing into the engine.

But the oil being too cold can be just as bad as it getting too hot. So some people block off their coolers until they get to track.

I put a square JDM front numberplate on and as it hangs down in front of the vent it blocks the airflow to my Mishimoto oil cooler enough to get heat in the oil for daily driving. I then just take it off or put the UK style plate back on when I get to the track.

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I've got a HEL kit still in a box somewhere for the reason Maurice mentions. Not sure if thinner pipe work would work fine though. It might even be possible to use the HKS sandwich plate with the rest of the HEL kit, I know I looked at Maurice's at one of the sprints but not in detail.

The thermostat will always be open slightly to avoid having cold oil mixing with hot engine/oil. While you're right in it doesn't need to be 100c to burn any water off, I'd prefer it to boil off than evaporate away!

I've also got a forester cooler (one that uses the coolant to cool the oil a bit) somewhere in another box, no reason other than I buy things without thinking at times and haven't got round to getting it fitted :D Doesn't provide the best cooling compared to one that'll use air, but it doesn't have the downsides of over cooling in the winter months.

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15 minutes ago, maurice said:

BTW, just checked the price of them now, wow. Thank Brexit for that one. I paid £576 delivered.

Pricey aye! If they were still the price you paid I would just pay the extra for the ease of fitting and more thought out design. There is a big price difference now though!

 

 

As with all things it sounds like there isn't a perfect solution then. I was hoping if I got a good one with a thermostat I would have to worry about blanking things off etc and it would just function as normal with the added cooling on trackdays -_-

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To be honest mine was probably the best track mod by far I did to my car, well that and the brakes. It's just nice not to have to worry about oil all the time. It was pretty handy to have blasting down the autoroutes in the South of France at 37 degrees ambient too!

The Mishimoto one might be a good cost/function compromise as that one doesn't have airbox clearance issues with the sandwich plate connections. (It uses banjos)

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@maurice is it  the fixings at the sandwich plate the main source of clearance issues then?

 

Yes I am hoping the Reyland brakes and oil cooler will finish what my setup is lacking in terms of track day use :)

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Yeah I believe so, HKS use upturned connectors on the sandwich plate and a banjo fitting which gets around it, Mishimoto use banjos. The cheap kits are basically an off the shelf cooler, couple pipes with 45 degree angle fittings and generic sandwich plate, which leaves you needing to hack off the corner of the airbox and cover the hole with tape.

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The Hel kits uses a Mocal thermostat plate and a Setrab core - there's no reason you couldn't piece together your own kit by buying those pieces off the shelf. Mocal and Setrab are pretty much the best regarded parts for thermostat plates and oil cooler rads.

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1 hour ago, maurice said:

Yeah I believe so, HKS use upturned connectors on the sandwich plate and a banjo fitting which gets around it, Mishimoto use banjos. The cheap kits are basically an off the shelf cooler, couple pipes with 45 degree angle fittings and generic sandwich plate, which leaves you needing to hack off the corner of the airbox and cover the hole with tape.

Cheers

 

Something I  will have to have a good look into. The Tuning developments on is best on price but as you say is just basic pipes, cooler and sandwich plate.

 

Just been flicking through merlin motorsports catalogue and it does look like you could spec a good one yourself from their parts catalogue. Only thing I would need to cross reference with someone is the pipe lengths.

Speccing your own would mean you could choose the most suitable connectors, a higher temperature opening thermostat etc.

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3 minutes ago, Deacon said:

The Hel kits uses a Mocal thermostat plate and a Setrab core - there's no reason you couldn't piece together your own kit by buying those pieces off the shelf. Mocal and Setrab are pretty much the best regarded parts for thermostat plates and oil cooler rads.

:lol: how random that you posted that whilst I was typing the same

 

Works out a good price too!

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2 minutes ago, Deacon said:

I swapped the thermostat in mine - think it's about £11 so not a big expense

What temp did you go for? Merlin do one for 92 'C which is what I was thinking of building one around.

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If your going to build a kit yourself or want to customise an existing kit, you can get a sandwich plate with a 45° output, like:

https://trackformula.co.uk/product/racinglines-oil-cooler-thermostatic-sandwich-plate-adapter/

https://turbozentrum.co.uk/Universal-Sandwich-Plate-with-Thermostat-and-Sensor-Ports-M20x15-and-3-4-16UNF?curr=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0fr_BRDaARIsAABw4EuF71gVGeUb2QneHCoxY06uO-EDIyaPaByZrEKPjLTUbWoU_OG2h2waAk--EALw_wcB

For reference the Jackson Racing kit for our cars comes with a sandwich plate with this design. 

When I spoke to Rogue about using AN Banjo fittings on the oil cooler, they advised against using them as they are known to leak. 

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21 hours ago, will300 said:

If your going to build a kit yourself or want to customise an existing kit, you can get a sandwich plate with a 45° output, like:

https://trackformula.co.uk/product/racinglines-oil-cooler-thermostatic-sandwich-plate-adapter/

https://turbozentrum.co.uk/Universal-Sandwich-Plate-with-Thermostat-and-Sensor-Ports-M20x15-and-3-4-16UNF?curr=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0fr_BRDaARIsAABw4EuF71gVGeUb2QneHCoxY06uO-EDIyaPaByZrEKPjLTUbWoU_OG2h2waAk--EALw_wcB

For reference the Jackson Racing kit for our cars comes with a sandwich plate with this design. 

When I spoke to Rogue about using AN Banjo fittings on the oil cooler, they advised against using them as they are known to leak. 

Shame they have an 82' thermostat otherwise those angled ones would have been ideal.

@will300 do you manage to run the standard fittings with an OEM box? My only reason for going banjo fitting was for clearance issues.

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