Upgrading Headunit for sound quality?

[infernouk 8]

Hey guys, 

Im looking to upgrade the sound quality in the 86 which is really shocking coming from an uprated corsa sound system which wasnt meant to be amazing. 

I have a nav model but dont like the nav unit at all, so I was considering a new unit. 

Is there a recommended headunit that fits easily and provides the same functionality but with much better sound quality? 

Secondly, is there any value in pulling out and flogging the stock headunit? As i dont need it and assumed someone may want to upgrade theirs? 

I dont use an android phone so wasnt sure of the use of an android unit, im really just hoping for decent sound quality, at a later date I will be adding an amp, sub, door speakers, but this is my first stage for now 

[Church 209]

There are three "bottlenecks" in sound quality in ours.

- mediocre HU. Imho any top tier vendor HU will sound better.

- bad quality speakers. Cheapest popular upgrade is Focal IS165TOY. OEM optional JBL sound upgrade imho is a bit too costly to what it brings. If money is no object, i'd rather lean to OEM+ Reference 500Q aftermarket set that is tailored to our cars.

- due sportiness and cheap budget class of our cars, sound insulation is also lacking. It's compromise though, as going overboard with it to bring it upto upmarket car level will also add weight. But if speakers will get upgraded anyway, i guess some reasonable soundmat install in doors won't hurt.

Among points imho worth to consider: rearwards visibility in these cars is rather bad. I find rear camera helping on that issue a lot, for tight space parallel park. So if changing headunit, i'd also explore if rear camera (and which) can be used with it. I guess, most camera kits out there are made to work with stock headunit. Aftermarket headunits (both top tier vendor ones & chinese android units) often have their own optional camera modules.

If budget is tight, i'd probably just go for FOCAL IS165TOY speaker upgrade. There should be thread about it in this forum.

[infernouk 8]

11 minutes ago, Church said:

There are three "bottlenecks" in sound quality in ours.

- mediocre HU. Imho any top tier vendor HU will sound better.

- bad quality speakers. Cheapest popular upgrade is Focal IS165TOY. OEM optional JBL sound upgrade imho is a bit too costly to what it brings. If money is no object, i'd rather lean to OEM+ Reference 500Q aftermarket set that is tailored to our cars.

- due sportiness and cheap budget class of our cars, sound insulation is also lacking. It's compromise though, as going overboard with it to bring it upto upmarket car level will also add weight. But if speakers will get upgraded anyway, i guess some reasonable soundmat install in doors won't hurt.

Among points imho worth to consider: rearwards visibility in these cars is rather bad. I find rear camera helping on that issue a lot, for tight space parallel park. So if changing headunit, i'd also explore if rear camera (and which) can be used with it. I guess, most camera kits out there are made to work with stock headunit. Aftermarket headunits (both top tier vendor ones & chinese android units) often have their own optional camera modules.

If budget is tight, i'd probably just go for FOCAL IS165TOY speaker upgrade. There should be thread about it in this forum.

thanks for the details, the 500Q setup looks nice, but i guess with import itll be way more expensive. So with headunits, i see most are fitting android ones from cheaper brands, should i assume sound quality on these wont be the best? May have these Joying brand ones 

[Nails 18]

Having only recently picked up my GT86 and coming from cars with better sound systems, I would say you are going to gain very little by changing the head unit or speakers due to the lack of sound deadening in the doors. However, from what I read on here before I picked my car up I was expecting the sound quality to be much worse than it actually is. 

I think for a noticeable difference you will probably want a load of sound deadening, amped aftermarket speakers and a sub in the boot. 

[infernouk 8]

cheers guys, concern was the sound deadening was the weight and messing around with panels, if its worth while then ill do that first i guess! headunit was more because i think the stock one is horrible to use and the distortion when turning any music up isnt sound deadening related

[nerdstrike 186]

Based on our collective efforts to deal with the weak ICE, I consider items in the following priority.

1) The speakers themselves are crap. The Focal Toyota fit set are drop-in, and easy-peasy. They upgrade you from rubbish to reasonably good for very little money. If you have deeper pockets you can get a lot more sound quality for say, £500, but then there's wiring to do, mountings  and more trim to remove.

2) The woofer performance can be improved by sticking some mass-loading onto the door skin. You don't have to coat every surface with the stuff. A bit in the doors gets you precision on the bass for fairly little weight. I also put absorbing foam in my doors and arches to reduce noise on the motorway, it helped but only a couple of dB. I wouldn't call it Mercedes.

3) Only now should you consider the head unit for sound quality. If step 1 took you to dedicated amps, then the headunit doesn't have much to do anyway.

Basically, I'm saying replace the headunit because you don't like it, not because you're expecting perceptible improvements in sound quality into the bargain. A replacement might have legroom for much better components, but the standard one is fine at low to medium volumes. I don't normally run the stereo very loud, I'll see if I can notice the distortion on the Focals.

Getting the door cards off is dead easy, and the water-proofing plastic layer can be reattached by its sticky black goo if it peels away.

[Nails 18]

12 minutes ago, infernouk said:

cheers guys, concern was the sound deadening was the weight and messing around with panels, if its worth while then ill do that first i guess! headunit was more because i think the stock one is horrible to use and the distortion when turning any music up isnt sound deadening related

Distortion? I haven't experienced that in mine. I don't know if it makes any difference but I have the touch and go sat nav touchscreen, my car is a 2016 Aero but as far as I know the speakers are the same. 

What volume have you turned it up to? Mine goes up to 50 without any distortion, I haven't tried it any higher yet. That's playing music through spotify via bluetooth with the bluetooth volume on the phone up to max. I don't know if it makes any difference but I also have all my music downloaded on Spotify set to "high quality" rather than standard. I have also turned the bass up a few notches on the head unit but left everything else as is. 

Like I said, from what people had been saying I was expecting the sound quality to be much worse than I am experiencing. At some point I may go for the Focal upgrade and add a small amount of sound deadening just around the speaker in the door but I don't want to add much weight, if any. I find the head unit ok, apart from that it is a little slow to boot up. I would like to hear in person other people's set ups before I go mucking with mine. You could potentially throw several hundred pounds at it for little gain. 

[VAD17 479]

I have got Focals with SilentCoat installed this weekend (photos and comments to follow in my blog).

Obviously not as good as my family Lexus, but its a noticeable improvement, particularly low volume bass. It wouldn't be my 1st item on the mods list, but its reasonably priced and hopefully will make longer trips a bit more enjoyable.

Although I have already seen a woofer that can be installed instead of space saver and its removable for track days... unfortunately more expensive...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Church 209]

I'd be willing only to reuse some space in portion of foam around spare wheel. Wouldn't want to loose nor space saver, nor part of (already scarce) trunk space with sub box like in OEM+.

But then again i'm no audiophile and most probably Focals will be sufficient to get audio above acceptable for me. Everything stock - isn't. Overall sound is worse then it was in 15+ y.o. corolla with just two speakers, after i replaced cassette player w. cheap alpine mp3 unit. Imho toyota/subaru also could have reduce count of speakers/wiring for that, instead going for lesser count but of more quality ones.

[infernouk 8]

59 minutes ago, VAD17 said:

I have got Focals with SilentCoat installed this weekend (photos and comments to follow in my blog).

Obviously not as good as my family Lexus, but its a noticeable improvement, particularly low volume bass. It wouldn't be my 1st item on the mods list, but its reasonably priced and hopefully will make longer trips a bit more enjoyable.

Although I have already seen a woofer that can be installed instead of space saver and its removable for track days... unfortunately more expensive...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

did you install yourself? i was concerned that itll be a pain to do 

[infernouk 8]

1 hour ago, nerdstrike said:

Based on our collective efforts to deal with the weak ICE, I consider items in the following priority.

1) The speakers themselves are crap. The Focal Toyota fit set are drop-in, and easy-peasy. They upgrade you from rubbish to reasonably good for very little money. If you have deeper pockets you can get a lot more sound quality for say, £500, but then there's wiring to do, mountings  and more trim to remove.

2) The woofer performance can be improved by sticking some mass-loading onto the door skin. You don't have to coat every surface with the stuff. A bit in the doors gets you precision on the bass for fairly little weight. I also put absorbing foam in my doors and arches to reduce noise on the motorway, it helped but only a couple of dB. I wouldn't call it Mercedes.

3) Only now should you consider the head unit for sound quality. If step 1 took you to dedicated amps, then the headunit doesn't have much to do anyway.

Basically, I'm saying replace the headunit because you don't like it, not because you're expecting perceptible improvements in sound quality into the bargain. A replacement might have legroom for much better components, but the standard one is fine at low to medium volumes. I don't normally run the stereo very loud, I'll see if I can notice the distortion on the Focals.

Getting the door cards off is dead easy, and the water-proofing plastic layer can be reattached by its sticky black goo if it peels away.

I could spend £500 if it got a result, or is it a diminishing return over the focals? I have just ordered a set for £120 off ebay

any specific product for 'mass loading' ? or is that the brand, i dont want to add significant weight which was my concern. As well as damaging trims 

Im happy to do the amp and sub route, as i had that in my corsa, though i assumed HU was still important in getting the source right? as well as needing the right plugs to connect to an amp 

[VAD17 479]

did you install yourself? i was concerned that itll be a pain to do 

Nope, was not brave enough even after reading how easy it is.

Good man Del at Polimax did it for me while I was getting windows tinted.
He did it much cheaper, but the range I was quoted from few other places (mind you in London) was between 90 and 120 quid (plus deadening material that you can select or buy yourself on Amazon or Ebay)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[infernouk 8]

18 minutes ago, VAD17 said:

Nope, was not brave enough even after reading how easy it is.

Good man Del at Polimax did it for me while I was getting windows tinted.
He did it much cheaper, but the range I was quoted from few other places (mind you in London) was between 90 and 120 quid (plus deadening material that you can select or buy yourself on Amazon or Ebay)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I don’t mind doing it myself so may read in to it! Ordered the focals so I’ll see what I think after that 

[Varelco 211]

You could spend thousands on the best audio gear but unless you address the environment its mounted in its pointless.  The 86 is by far the worst in terms of audio quality. Even against budget hatchbacks. Sealing and deadening the interior makes a massive difference. Fortunately for us you just have to sneeze and the interior falls apart. You can strip the interior out in an afternoon that includes the seats and carpets if you go the whole hog! I added 11kg of sound deadening and that proved to be perfect. In the scheme of things its nothing.

[infernouk 8]

4 minutes ago, Varelco said:

You could spend thousands on the best audio gear but unless you address the environment its mounted in its pointless.  The 86 is by far the worst in terms of audio quality. Even against budget hatchbacks. Sealing and deadening the interior makes a massive difference. Fortunately for us you just have to sneeze and the interior falls apart. You can strip the interior out in an afternoon that includes the seats and carpets if you go the whole hog! I added 11kg of sound deadening and that proved to be perfect. In the scheme of things its nothing.

 Not sure I’m confident enough to rip it to that many pieces, can you comment on them best possible areas / actions for someone with no experience or affinity with these things? 

[Varelco 211]

Definitely the doors. Removing the door card requires a bit more of an effort  compared to the rear quarters but I'd say if you can build flat pack furniture you can strip it apart. There are some detailed guides of stripping these apart over on FT86Club.

If you accomplish this and feel like you can tackle more, address the rear quarters and under the rear seats. This was the most effective area to reduce road noise.

Anything else seems to have less of an effect, (the floor pan and transmission tunnel). I didn't waste time, money and weight on doing the boot as the rear seats do a great job of keeping noise out of the cabin, especially if you have done the rear quarters.

[infernouk 8]

25 minutes ago, Varelco said:

Definitely the doors. Removing the door card requires a bit more of an effort  compared to the rear quarters but I'd say if you can build flat pack furniture you can strip it apart. There are some detailed guides of stripping these apart over on FT86Club.

If you accomplish this and feel like you can tackle more, address the rear quarters and under the rear seats. This was the most effective area to reduce road noise.

Anything else seems to have less of an effect, (the floor pan and transmission tunnel). I didn't waste time, money and weight on doing the boot as the rear seats do a great job of keeping noise out of the cabin, especially if you have done the rear quarters.

ok great i think ill start with the doors and see how i go, any specific brand of insulation recommended? 

[VAD17 479]

I got Silent Coat. Its cheap and you can choose different sheets or a larger pack if you decide to insulate rear under seats or sides later.

To be honest I probably should have put more as it does make a difference (may be at some stage in the future).

Dynamat is more expensive but seem to get better reviews.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[infernouk 8]

1 minute ago, VAD17 said:

I got Silent Coat. Its cheap and you can choose different sheets or a larger pack if you decide to insulate rear under seats or sides later.

To be honest I probably should have put more as it does make a difference (may be at some stage in the future).

Dynamat is more expensive but seem to get better reviews.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

thanks ill grab some silent coat for the doors then!

[Varelco 211]

Silent coat is also  what I used. Good stuff and well priced.

[infernouk 8]

5 minutes ago, Varelco said:

Silent coat is also  what I used. Good stuff and well priced.

good to hear, just looking for some sort of tutorial, i saw one but it was literally just cutting it up and sticking it on the metal work everywhere possible? 

[Lauren 2259]

I thought the stock sound system was shite I still think it is. I tried the JBL but wasn't impressed with it. In the end I went for a £3K install. I had all this fitted along with dynamat on the boot floor and in the door panels a month after I got the car new. I have an Alpine INE-925R HU (with DAB and satnav), Focal 3 two way speakers with the tweeters cut into the top of the door panels. I have a Hertz Amp running three channels, with a 12" JL sub in the boot and an Audison Bit 10 DSP. The whole boot floor has been replaced with MDF and fibreglass. It's not removable and I've sprinted it for four years and done loads of track days. Not a problem. 

I didn't bother with the rear speakers as they are pointless. My system has a fair bit of power and that's what you need to cut through the road noise generated by the car. A decent helping of bass helps with this. Mine is a bit overdone in this respect and I only run the sub at a fifth of what it can do. The difference between stock and mine is astounding and it is as you'd expect light years ahead of the JBL. You'd expect it to be though, at that price. I do get problems with the bass of course if I turn it up, but I'm not one for hanging around McDonald's I just want quality audio in my car as I like my music a lot which really dictated how much I spent. 5 years later it still sounds amazing and I've certainly got my monies worth out of it after 110K+ miles. 

[infernouk 8]

8 minutes ago, Lauren said:

I thought the stock sound system was shite I still think it is. I tried the JBL but wasn't impressed with it. In the end I went for a £3K install. I had all this fitted along with dynamat on the boot floor and in the door panels a month after I got the car new. I have an Alpine INE-925R HU (with DAB and satnav), Focal 3 two way speakers with the tweeters cut into the top of the door panels. I have a Hertz Amp running three channels, with a 12" JL sub in the boot and an Audison Bit 10 DSP. The whole boot floor has been replaced with MDF and fibreglass. It's not removable and I've sprinted it for four years and done loads of track days. Not a problem. 

I didn't bother with the rear speakers as they are pointless. My system has a fair bit of power and that's what you need to cut through the road noise generated by the car. A decent helping of bass helps with this. Mine is a bit overdone in this respect and I only run the sub at a fifth of what it can do. The difference between stock and mine is astounding and it is as you'd expect light years ahead of the JBL. You'd expect it to be though, at that price. I do get problems with the bass of course if I turn it up, but I'm not one for hanging around McDonald's I just want quality audio in my car as I like my music a lot which really dictated how much I spent. 5 years later it still sounds amazing and I've certainly got my monies worth out of it after 110K+ miles. 

thanks, yeah im not looking to go that serious as my car does about 2k miles a year, i just love audio and its painful that this is my cars audio quality. I have gone for the focals everyone seems to go for, then ill sound dampen the doors and see where i stand. I had a corsa before with no sound dampening and ran an amp with JL audio amp and speakers + sub and that sounded great for the 1k it cost me

[br0wny 27]

just seen this - https://www.silentcoat.co.uk/collections/silent-coat/products/silent-coat-2mm-mat-door-pack might make a purchase! 

[infernouk 8]

8 minutes ago, br0wny said:

just seen this - https://www.silentcoat.co.uk/collections/silent-coat/products/silent-coat-2mm-mat-door-pack might make a purchase! 

theres various sizes available on amazon that may be cheaper? i cant find a direct product comparison