GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 7, 2015 Here is the makeup of the supercharger unit itself: For anyone interested here is a photo of the Supercharger unit and the Drag reduction system that we spoke about earlier... You can see the 3rd roller wheel has a spring which when no load is on retracts to reduce load. Also here is a Dyno run of the 3 systems in place. Stock, Step1 (39mm Restrictor) and Step 2 (43mm Restrictor) I'm currently on Step1 39mm Restrictor. As you can see it doesn't affect to much low down. But actually starts to pull the hp down at about 4800rpm. My plan is to run the car in this setup for a little while, then upgrade to the 43mm restrictor. But i'm more than happy on the 39mm restrictor and the power feels good! Estimated at about 275hp currently based on the amount of Air we measured through the air box whilst mapping. 3 Tweedbean, Lee and JamesP1991 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iddrew 86 Report post Posted May 7, 2015 Great info Jay! It's interesting to see how the HP starts to be pulled down because of the restrictor. Is it safe to run a 43mm restrictor on stock fuel system? Also, Did you have to install an AFR gauge for Adrian to map you car better? Or were the readings from the Ecutek AFR enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 7, 2015 Great info Jay! It's interesting to see how the HP starts to be pulled down because of the restrictor. Is it safe to run a 43mm restrictor on stock fuel system? Also, Did you have to install an AFR gauge for Adrian to map you car better? Or were the readings from the Ecutek AFR enough? Yeah, Maz is running the 43mm restrictor on stock fuel. Its ok, HKS only really advise it with Injectors as you are closing on the limit and when they first mapped it they didn't have quite the control Ecutek does over the injectors. Yes we installed an AFR gauge onto the manifold initially to map the high speed stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted May 7, 2015 Or were the readings from the Ecutek AFR enough?You can't trust the OEM sensor down in those AFR ranges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark@Abbey M/S 235 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 How would you compare the two Mark? How different does the HKS feel and perform compared to the Sprintex? Jay summed it up pretty well , Sprintex has more initial torque being a positive displacement charger, where as the HKS makes more top end power. the HKS keeps the spirit of the Stock NA car thou more revs more power where as the Sprintex makes it like a big V8... I have seen something else that looks good thou 1 GT86Jay reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 what is that beast? You can't just post up a pic and not give us some more details! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee 82 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 Harrop TVS - similar to cosworth but uses the larger blower - TVS1320 vs the TVS900 on cosworth http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78648 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark@Abbey M/S 235 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 Correct... I seen some good repeatable numbers from the Harrop. I won't clutter Jays thread thou. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 I'd seen that Harrop TVS supercharger too. Think it was water-cooled, looked very interesting but from what I understand it was still quite early on in development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 The only thing I'm interested is how loud is the whine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 The only thing I'm interested is how loud is the whine With the HKS there isn't a whine as such. You can hear it breathing. From the outside it's quite obviously superchargerd due to the sound and the air rushing! From inside you can tell theres something going on. On full throttle you really know! The Recirc valve sounds fantastic between shifts and the exhaust is a really nice sound. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 With the HKS there isn't a whine as such. You can hear it breathing. From the outside it's quite obviously superchargerd due to the sound and the air rushing! From inside you can tell theres something going on. On full throttle you really know! The Recirc valve sounds fantastic between shifts and the exhaust is a really nice sound. any chance of getting a clip of that noise if possible? as I'm still not made up which SC I want and the noise is part of the decision making Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 any chance of getting a clip of that noise if possible? as I'm still not made up which SC I want and the noise is part of the decision making I'll try. I did get a quick clip but the sound of the exhaust and rattles seemed to over power the recirc noise. I should be borrowing a GoPro soon and can get some better external / underbonnet videos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHOSENMAN007 81 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 Its good to understand in words how different superchargers deliver their power. Thank you. Am I right in saying the HKS kit and kraftwerks kit are similar? They look it. Can the blower in the HKS be swapped out for a bigger variant like the Kraftwerks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omer86 40 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 Do you have a 2.5" or 3" exhaust set up? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 Its good to understand in words how different superchargers deliver their power. Thank you. Am I right in saying the HKS kit and kraftwerks kit are similar? They look it. Can the blower in the HKS be swapped out for a bigger variant like the Kraftwerks? They are similar in that they both use Centrifugal chargers. But they're quite difference in terms of setup and pipework. The belts are driven differently and the pipework is very similar. I believe with the kraftwerks kit you have to do a fair bit of modification to the washer bottle and such. This charger is good to about 400bhp without a restrictor. So can be turned up if needed! They don't do a bigger charger you cna just swap in. They might release something bigger later on down the line but I imagine it would need a different install / pipe setup due to the space. But I think 400+hp on a forged engine will be more than enough for most people! Do you have a 2.5" or 3" exhaust set up? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I have a 2.5" exhaust all the way. HKS De-Catted Manifold, Miltek Overpipe, BERK catted front pipe and Cobra Resonated centre pipe and Cobra Back Box. We didn't see any problems with flow or the system holding anything back. It flows very well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHOSENMAN007 81 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks Jay. What would be the limit before you need to go built motor? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks Jay. What would be the limit before you need to go built motor? Depends on the knock limitations of the engine and the low down torque delivery. It would certainly be possible to do the full 350+ on a stock engine if tuned well, but lowering the compression will give you more knock headroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark@Abbey M/S 235 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 These HKS blowers don't make the boost at the bottom end like the Postive displacement blowers so they are easier on the motors. Peak torque isn't to 6000+ so no real hassle with peak cylinder pressure like you get with a turbocharged motor. Can't wait to run one without a restrictor :-) 1 CHOSENMAN007 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 Like Mark says you've not really got to worry about bringing in the boost too low down due to how the centrifugal chargers work. HKS supply the 43mm restrictor to produce around 300bhp. As this is what they consider 'safe and reliable' on a stock motor. I may open my restrictor to 44mm or 45mm just to see what a couple of mm difference makes as mine isn't a daily driver Unrestricted should be able to see around 400bhp on the same charger. I too am excited to see what one does without the restrictor! There is an engine being built at the moment to take it!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 Depends on the knock limitations of the engine and the low down torque delivery. It would certainly be possible to do the full 350+ on a stock engine if tuned well, but lowering the compression will give you more knock headroom. Steve - the forged HKS kit has a c/r of approx 11.5:1 - way above Cossie or Merkin forged pistons but with s/c engines it is not so much of a knock issue as it could be with turbo. Or so I am told. We shall see. Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adam 70 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 They are similar in that they both use Centrifugal chargers. But they're quite difference in terms of setup and pipework. The belts are driven differently and the pipework is very similar. I believe with the kraftwerks kit you have to do a fair bit of modification to the washer bottle and such. Im not so sure on the modification side of the kraftwerks mine is in the box in my garage waiting for me to get the time to fit it I have had a look throught comes with a replacement washer bottle, and from the looks of it you dont actually have to cut or modify anything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHOSENMAN007 81 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 The HKS system sounds like it opens up a few more avenues than the sprintex. Id say 300whp or there about would be a golden marker on a s.c set up. especially for a road and track car. And not need any more unless you want uber power (turbo). I like my immediate wack of power which the sprintex gives as helps over taking. My problem now is going to the next level of power. A auto trans does not help either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted May 11, 2015 Took it out on it's first 'proper spirited drive' yesterday. We met up with the Piston-heads forum group at Thetford and then convoyed to Stowmarket along some awesome back roads. We then drove a coastal road to Aldeburgh for some fish and chips! Around 70 cars turned up for the day! All the way it was an absolute blast! On the B-Roads with momentum it just flys! It was catching me out at just how quick it accelerates out of corners! I'm glad I've got good brakes and a good pad compound! I was behind an Audi RS4, BMW M3, EVO 8 and an RX7. Keeping up was no problem. Corners, straight lines and the likes were just perfect! This charger really makes for an awesome 'spirited driving' car! Staying in the 4 - 7k range on a back road is so much fun. A gear higher usually in corners makes it easier and a bit more usable out of corners. Fully controllable on the throttle, surge of power when you get on the throttle between corners and then plenty of torque out of corners to not need to shift down to 2nd. At one point I had an M3 behind me and wasn't holding him up at all. Usually would have been a massive problem up front with those sort of cars! All day I was getting compliments on how well it drove and how awesome it sounds! Few guys behind actually pulled over and complimented how great it sounded. On lift off there's a really nice burble and the odd pop apparently. One guy behind me has got some video which he's sorting out and will send to me. Lifting off at around 7.5k rpm and you get the awesome recirc sound. Like your traditional Blow Off sound but a little more subtle and longer, and it's not super chavy which is nice, from the outside you can just hear that something is going on and the sound of Darth Vader breathing. Out of roundabouts and B-Roads the Power to Weight is now identical to an E46 BMW M3. On the B-Roads I didn't really find anything out of league. If you love reving your car out and using all the power of the rev range then the HKS Centrifugal is definitely worth thinking about! It still gives the sense of having to work the car and wind it up. But you just have a hell of a lot more power all of the time. It just keeps reving and reving! No way to really explain it unless you drive it. But imagine the stock car with just more power everywhere! One of the best things I've done to the car! Fuel wise, yesterdays run, driving it very hard 95% of the time. Full throttle blasts between most corners. I averaged 27mpg. Nothing to bad! Average I'm now getting 33mpg. Which is 2 mpg down on what I used to get. Not really a noticeable difference! And since i've had the charger fitted i've not really been economical with it! I should think I can get it up to around 35mpg again with a lighter right foot. 6 Qu1nt, Keethos, JamesP1991 and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polishingpedlar 49 Report post Posted May 11, 2015 Nice write up Jay. I must say your not helping though.... I was trying to resist the urge to modify this year. This afternoon I had to stop myself phoning Mark and booking the car in. I fear it won't be long.LOL!!!! 2 Qu1nt and Keethos reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
