xxJaRxx 2 Report post Posted February 15, 2017 Hi all, I've been researching supercharger options for a while now, mainly the Jackson Racing kit and also the high boost pulley option for it. The majority of information I've found is from the US and to be honest their power figures totally confuse me! They seem to quote wheel horsepower which I guess should mean lower figures than we're used to over here (as we quote crank hp) especially as they normally use 91 or 94 octane fuel. But then a lot use E85 which bumps the power up massively! Does anyone here have / know anyone that has a Jackson Racing supercharger in the UK? And of those people, is anyone running the high boost pulley? Interested to understand what's possible/realistic with high octane UK fuel (e.g. Vpower). Thought I'd ask here before contacting JR or TTS. Thanks, James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deacon 1357 Report post Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, xxJaRxx said: Hi all, I've been researching supercharger options for a while now, mainly the Jackson Racing kit and also the high boost pulley option for it. The majority of information I've found is from the US and to be honest their power figures totally confuse me! They seem to quote wheel horsepower which I guess should mean lower figures than we're used to over here (as we quote crank hp) especially as they normally use 91 or 94 octane fuel. But then a lot use E85 which bumps the power up massively! Does anyone here have / know anyone that has a Jackson Racing supercharger in the UK? And of those people, is anyone running the high boost pulley? Interested to understand what's possible/realistic with high octane UK fuel (e.g. Vpower). Thought I'd ask here before contacting JR or TTS. Thanks, James There are way more knowledgeable people than me who I'm sure will chip in soon but one thing to bear in mind is that the safe limit on these for fi without further work seems to be 280bhp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 15, 2017 You can usually equate VPower to most of their 93 octane results, real 93 would possibly be a little better than VPower but with any fuel the quality varies. Or take a 91 octane result and then assume you make a little more. For WHP to BHP roughly add 40 however there will be obvious varances between dynos etc. As the JR and Kraftwerks use the same Rotrex supercharger then you could use that for extra data, as you could use the Litchfield Spec S as that is as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul 442 Report post Posted February 15, 2017 A Jackson Racing Supercharger? Never heard of it. Doubt anyone has one in the UK. Most are Sprintex/Harrop/Cosworth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 It's less well known, Paul, but they certainly exist. Very popular with MX5 owners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 JR SC Owners Thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60172 Only 281 pages long.... MX-5 and K series products are both positive displacement type blowers, the FA20 is a Rotrex centrifugal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Make sure you are happy with the power delivery of a centrifugal SC before committing, also dont believe everything you read on the ft86club! I'd try a few different kits out if you can. I wouldn't touch the Litchfield SC simply because hardly anyone has it so its not stood the test of time IMO. The most popular centrifugal SC kit here i nthe UK is the HKS V2 - fairly cheap and proven to work well. Stick with the stock restrictor for safe power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Also worth noting that Litchfield don't seem overly keen on working on our platforms anymore since they have a garage full of Beemers and GTRs to work on. I've heard lots more bad stories by disgruntled Litchfield customers than happy customers. But there's plenty of other FI options out there. Wasn't GPRM offering the Rotrex SC or was it a Vortex SC??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul 442 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 Going for a TD turbo myself. 2 Will T8WMM and Mark-in-Stoke reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Keethos said: Also worth noting that Litchfield don't seem overly keen on working on our platforms anymore since they have a garage full of Beemers and GTRs to work on. I've heard lots more bad stories by disgruntled Litchfield customers than happy customers. But there's plenty of other FI options out there. Wasn't GPRM offering the Rotrex SC or was it a Vortex SC??? GPRM had the Kraftwerks Rotrex based kit from the USA. 1 Keethos reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Paul said: Going for a TD turbo myself. I'm going for dinner. Neither point helpful to thread... 1 Tom B reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxJaRxx 2 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 22 hours ago, Deacon said: There are way more knowledgeable people than me who I'm sure will chip in soon but one thing to bear in mind is that the safe limit on these for fi without further work seems to be 280bhp. Yeah I think you're right. There must be a reason most of the kits make around that power. 21 hours ago, knightryder said: You can usually equate VPower to most of their 93 octane results, real 93 would possibly be a little better than VPower but with any fuel the quality varies. Or take a 91 octane result and then assume you make a little more. For WHP to BHP roughly add 40 however there will be obvious varances between dynos etc. As the JR and Kraftwerks use the same Rotrex supercharger then you could use that for extra data, as you could use the Litchfield Spec S as that is as well. Really? I thought US fuel was meant to be crap? Didn't expect it to be equal to our super premium stuff. Isn't Vpower meant to be 99 octane? 11 hours ago, knightryder said: JR SC Owners Thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60172 Only 281 pages long.... MX-5 and K series products are both positive displacement type blowers, the FA20 is a Rotrex centrifugal. Thanks for the link. I have read through a big JR thread but can't remember if it was that one! Will have another look. 10 hours ago, Ade said: Make sure you are happy with the power delivery of a centrifugal SC before committing, also dont believe everything you read on the ft86club! I'd try a few different kits out if you can. I wouldn't touch the Litchfield SC simply because hardly anyone has it so its not stood the test of time IMO. The most popular centrifugal SC kit here i nthe UK is the HKS V2 - fairly cheap and proven to work well. Stick with the stock restrictor for safe power. I think centrifugal will be right for me, though I don't have any experience whatsoever with any type of supercharger! I do like top end power though and love to rev out my Clio so I'd want to keep that style of driving i.e. I'm not interested in going fast while shifting at 5k, I'd much rather have to work to get the most out of it at 7.5k 4 hours ago, Keethos said: Also worth noting that Litchfield don't seem overly keen on working on our platforms anymore since they have a garage full of Beemers and GTRs to work on. I've heard lots more bad stories by disgruntled Litchfield customers than happy customers. But there's plenty of other FI options out there. Wasn't GPRM offering the Rotrex SC or was it a Vortex SC??? I hadn't really considered Lichfield anyway for some reason though I do love the wheels on their car! TSW Nurburgring I think. I think I will have to contact JR or TTS directly to understand what's possible with the high boost pulley and upgraded charger on Vpower. I'll also do some forum research on the Kraftworks and HKS kits. James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 I would highly recommend you drive or get a passenger ride in a few different setups. I thought centrifugal was for me (not saying it isnt for you) but then I drove the hks gt86 and didnt like that all the power was high in the revs. I went with a positive dispacment sc in the end becuase I liked the big engine feel it gave. Its like a stock engine just add 50% torque everywhere. You still have to rev it out to get the best from it. difference is that you can get a move on briskly without needing to go past 4k on the commute. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, xxJaRxx said: Really? I thought US fuel was meant to be crap? Didn't expect it to be equal to our super premium stuff. Isn't Vpower meant to be 99 octane? No, VPower is 99RON. It's roughly 92-93 octane in US speak. US 91 gets a bad reputation and it seems their 93 quality varies a lot even for the same brand. The US octane ratings are actually what is known as AKI (anti-knock index) which is the average on MON and RON ratings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Ade said: I thought centrifugal was for me (not saying it isnt for you) but then I drove the hks gt86 and didnt like that all the power was high in the revs. I went with a positive dispacment sc in the end becuase I liked the big engine feel it gave. Its like a stock engine just add 50% torque everywhere. You still have to rev it out to get the best from it. difference is that you can get a move on briskly without needing to go past 4k on the commute. I've driven the Sprintex and HKS. What I liked about the HKS was that it really went at the top end, so in a way it was more like the NA, in that you had to really work it to get the best out of it. But I do love high revs (the appeal of an NA I suppose). So it's a preference thing of course. I found with the Sprintex (I still haven't driven a GT with the Cosworth blower) that though it provided strong torque, it didn't really give a rush at higher revs. But I still found the HKS brisk enough in the mid range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Lauren said: But I do love high revs (the appeal of an NA I suppose). So it's a preference thing of course. I found with the Sprintex (I still haven't driven a GT with the Cosworth blower) that though it provided strong torque, it didn't really give a rush at higher revs. Given that the torque curve of the Sprintex is similar in overall shape to the NA FA20. It really shouldn't feel any different to the NA car but with more everywhere. The TVS blowers do have a bit more torque at the top end and obviously the centrifugal blowers build torque much higher up. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 The Sprintex reminded me of the old Roots type blower on my MR2 SC, lots of torque in the mid-range, but it didn't feel strong at the top end. Though to be fair it was much better than the MR2 supercharger. The HKS is different it really flies at the top end, but I think the HKS does more than well enough in the mid-range. It was my favourite out of the Sprintex and the AVO turbos I tried, though the AVO turbo stage 1 was nice, the stage 3 less so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoax 21 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 @Lauren how does your NA tuned car compare to the turbos and superchargers you tried? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S18 RSG 429 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 @xxJaRxx I know I have a reason to be biassed here, given what choice I made, but I too looked at the Jackson Racing kit through TTS, as they had a special offer of £3,000 fitted and mapped when I enquired. I still chose to go elsewhere. Having tried the Harrop, Avo, HKS and TD Turbo, my personal ranking was TD > Harrop > Avo > HKS. I imagine the JR supercharger would drive similar to the HKS, which I found had a similar power delivery to what I'd expect of a turbo, but without the theatrics of the noise. The Harrop was a great example of what a supercharger should feel like IMO, and I imagine is similar to the Cosworth. Not a great deal of drama, just a faint whine and plenty or torque everywhere. It makes the car feel like it's got a bigger capacity engine, as opposed to forced induction. If that's what you're after, I feel like twin screw is the way to go. The reason I was initially against the turbo setups, was that I didn't want to spoil the stock power delivery. I didn't want a car with no power down low, and all power coming in one big lump at 5k, like the old school Jap turbos. Both the Avo and TD setups changed my opinion of turbo setups for these cars, as both gave similarly smooth power delivery to that of a centrifugal supercharger, with great top end power and equally useful low end grunt, with the added benfit of the great soundtrack from the external wastegate or blow off valves. Much like yourself (it seems), I was slightly put off by the lack of information and testing in the UK for the JR/Kraftwerks kits, and eventually wrote them off completely when I considered the potential nightmare in the case of an issue. I decided it would be much better to go with one of the 3 big GT86 tuners, for proven trust and support, and personally enjoyed the package TD had to offer, at an exceptional price point, and with potentially more future-proofing than any other kit (turbo or supercharged) on the market. Hopefully this helps in some way, but no matter what you choose, I'm sure you'll love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varelco 211 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 @xxJaRxx I think you are best off just contacting JR or TTS. The fact is its not really a popular option in the UK if you look between the 2 forums. All you will get out of this thread is people comparing/arguing about the other options available, which one is the best/better value/best power delivery etc etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Varelco said: @xxJaRxx I think you are best off just contacting JR or TTS. The fact is its not really a popular option in the UK if you look between the 2 forums. All you will get out of this thread is people comparing/arguing about the other options available, which one is the best/better value/best power delivery etc etc. This is also very true! @xxJaRxx FWIW the Jackson Racing kit is well tried and tested as per the ft86club thread, so if you are sure centrifugal is the way to go then £3k fitted and mapped is a very good price indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfranklyn86 52 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 20 hours ago, xxJaRxx said: I think centrifugal will be right for me, though I don't have any experience whatsoever with any type of supercharger! I do like top end power though and love to rev out my Clio so I'd want to keep that style of driving i.e. I'm not interested in going fast while shifting at 5k, I'd much rather have to work to get the most out of it at 7.5k With a TVS blower you'll be going fast enough before you get to 5k. I like not having to 'work it' when I want power immediately. I would recommend trying a TVS charged 86 before plumping for a centrifugal or a turbo. There are good reasons for choosing any one of the above options in fairness. The other thing to think about is how much track stuff you expect to be doing. Centrifugals like the HKS are supposed to be better for hard track use due to the A-A intercooler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Hoax said: @Lauren how does your NA tuned car compare to the turbos and superchargers you tried? Well, it obviously has less power, but it has better throttle response of course, you can't beat an NA for that, so balancing the throttle mid corner as I do, it's great for that. The trouble is for me, I'd rather use more of my power band more of the time and that's what you can do more in the NA, less power means you can be on it more, without going stupid fast. The trouble is a big turbo or SC and big tyres, means you'll have fun less of the time on the public road which is where, let's face it, we all spend the majority of our time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul 442 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 Also with a few mods, the car can still reach license-losing territory pretty damn quick. I've seen the speedo hit silly speeds in no time at all and mine's only got intake and exhaust mods with a remap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrey86 352 Report post Posted February 17, 2017 Wow 3k fitted and mapped is seriously cheap! It's almost not fair to compare to a Cosworth or Harrop when half the price.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
