Help with wheel offsets

[MartinT 514]

Of those listed, 35 would give you the least offset (most poke) for good fitment.

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[Darth Raknoor 1]

Is 35 just for the 4 bolt or does the chart mean any of the offsets shown? 

[Deacon 1357]

23 minutes ago, Darth Raknoor said:

Is 35 just for the 4 bolt or does the chart mean any of the offsets shown? 

It does look like 35 is only available for 4 bolt. It appears there is only a 50 offset available for the 86 fitment looking at that chart which would be a pretty rubbish fitment for the 86/BRZ

[MartinT 514]

Ah sorry, I was looking at that chart on my phone.  Yes, 50 would be poor and might even encroach on the suspension.

Why not go for 17 x 8 size which would give you a lot more choice and allows 225 tyres which also give you more choice.

[Darth Raknoor 1]

To be honest looks like Advan don't really do good fitments for 86/BRZ's. Will take a look at some Work S1R's instead. 

Thank you all for the info. 🙂 

[will300 812]

2 minutes ago, Darth Raknoor said:

To be honest looks like Advan don't really do good fitments for 86/BRZ's. Will take a look at some Work S1R's instead. 

Thank you all for the info. 🙂 

I was just looking at Work wheels as an alternatively for you, as they make the T5R which is the same style as the Advan TC4.

You can get the works from Driftworks. I'd speak to them and see if they do them in custom offsets as the standard ones listed are very weak. 

https://www.driftworks.com/work-wheels-emotion-t5r.html

[Darth Raknoor 1]

Thanks mate. Yeah, seems I will have to go to 2 piece wheels to get the size/offset I need. Around £2k though 🤪, will need to save up a bit for them... 

[Darth Raknoor 1]

Does anyone have a picture of 17x7.5 et35 size on their car they'd be willing to post? 

[Deacon 1357]

59 minutes ago, Darth Raknoor said:

Does anyone have a picture of 17x7.5 et35 size on their car they'd be willing to post? 

These are 17x7.5" et35

[Darth Raknoor 1]

Awesome, thank you. Sits just right on that fitment. Hopefully I can post up some pics when I get the new wheels. 

Again, thank you to everyone who's helped me with this. 🙂 

[Kono 14]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:39 AM, Darth Raknoor said:

Awesome, thank you. Sits just right on that fitment. Hopefully I can post up some pics when I get the new wheels. 

Again, thank you to everyone who's helped me with this. 🙂 

Don't know why no one has recommended this so far but this is by far the best tool I've ever seen to help explain ET, size etc. Pretty accurate too!

http://ft86motorsports.com/wheelitfit/

Just bang in what you want and see what it looks like compared to the standard set up.

 

Also nice choice of wheels  I'm looking into getting some DR10 work wheels 18x8.5 et32. Gunna be super close and might need a bit of adjustment but they look so sweet. The most unspoken thing I notice, since everyone points out 'poking out', no one seems to mention if you have too wide wheels with a high ET your wheels will catch your suspension. A friend of mine had a insane amount of jap wheels lying round and we where trying some on my car, he had some green D9R 18 x 10.5 et 48 and they couldn't even touch the studs because they hit the shockies about 2 inches before the start of the thread >.< 

[Darth Raknoor 1]

Awesome site, thank you. Those wheels do look very nice. Just need to find out if the AP caliper kit will fit behind the S1R's. Not getting the AP's immediately but I want to future proof the wheels so to speak. I knew this would happen as soon as I started looking at the 86....so many ideas on how I want to mod it. lol

[Kono 14]

2 hours ago, Darth Raknoor said:

Awesome site, thank you. Those wheels do look very nice. Just need to find out if the AP caliper kit will fit behind the S1R's. Not getting the AP's immediately but I want to future proof the wheels so to speak. I knew this would happen as soon as I started looking at the 86....so many ideas on how I want to mod it. lol

I think as long as your going for 18's there shouldn't really be a  issue. Ap's own site states they are designed for 18" wheels (provided your going for the 6 pot). Not sure about how the ET or width would effect it but if its only a 7.5" you could always get some extra clearance with spacers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Darth Raknoor 1]

I'm thinking of these ones (https://apracing.com/performance-upgrades/factory-big-brake-kits/toyota/gt86-2012-front-4-piston-kit-cp6628-1005-332-x-26mm-disc-o?switch=1) as they'll fit 17's, just need to chat to driftworks to see if the +35 offset will interfere with the callipers. 

[Lauren 2259]

1 hour ago, Darth Raknoor said:

I'm thinking of these ones (https://apracing.com/performance-upgrades/factory-big-brake-kits/toyota/gt86-2012-front-4-piston-kit-cp6628-1005-332-x-26mm-disc-o?switch=1) as they'll fit 17's, just need to chat to driftworks to see if the +35 offset will interfere with the callipers. 

Seriously go with the Reyland AP 4 pot kit with their discs and save some money over the AP discs. It's more than up to the job whatever you throw at it. Mine fit under my 17x8 ET38 TE37's, with loads of clearance. 

[MartinT 514]

The +35 offset will give you more clearance, not less.

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[Darth Raknoor 1]

18 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Seriously go with the Reyland AP 4 pot kit with their discs and save some money over the AP discs. It's more than up to the job whatever you throw at it. Mine fit under my 17x8 ET38 TE37's, with loads of clearance. 

Will definitely look into those, thanks. 🙂. Nice wheels by the way, really hope when this virus is sorted I get to meet up with people from here at japfest or an other event and see all your 86's/BRZ's. 

[Kono 14]

14 hours ago, Darth Raknoor said:

Will definitely look into those, thanks. 🙂. Nice wheels by the way, really hope when this virus is sorted I get to meet up with people from here at japfest or an other event and see all your 86's/BRZ's. 

Yeah! I'm pretty new here too and yet to meet anyone else with a 86 (except the lovely old lady who lives near me with one her son bought her) so cant wait to get out there and see some of y'all. Aside from the odd anglesea and oulton park track day mostly just been to local meets in the north west. Biggest events I've been to have been the Jap show and Mopar at Santa pod. I'm honestly kind of put off a lot of  car shows/events based around Jap cars because you always get a like 20% actual jap car turn up and about 200 astras and focus ST's with big bean cans turning up...

15 hours ago, Lauren said:

Seriously go with the Reyland AP 4 pot kit with their discs and save some money over the AP discs. It's more than up to the job whatever you throw at it. Mine fit under my 17x8 ET38 TE37's, with loads of clearance. 

If you know any good fabricators  the cheapest way to get good caliper upgrades is just going to scrapyards and finding wrote off mercs and porches (which for some reason in Liverpool seem to be in abundance). Got a 12 pot set of brembo off a AMG for about £400 for my friends R33 and just had a custom mounting bracket made up. I get replacing the pads and discs eventually gets expensive but for the initial saving it was great

[Church 209]

Cheapest, yes. And wrong one to do, with high chance to make brakes worse then they were due shifting brake bias. Making something as important as brakes worse just for sake of looks because money is short seems wrong. It can be fixed/workarounded via eg. installing biasing valve, or trying to select staggered pads with different friction, but former will rise budget back, and later still needs lot of extra testing and those several different pads available in first place. Brakes are so not just about custom bracket to enable mounting on different car, at least done properly, and retrofit done properly is not cheaper.

[Kono 14]

5 minutes ago, Church said:

Cheapest, yes. And wrong one to do, with high chance to make brakes worse then they were due shifting brake bias. Making something as important as brakes worse just for sake of looks because money is short seems wrong. It can be fixed/workarounded via eg. installing biasing valve, or trying to select staggered pads with different friction, but former will rise budget back, and later still needs lot of extra testing and those several different pads available in first place. Brakes are so not just about custom bracket to enable mounting on different car, at least done properly, and retrofit done properly is not cheaper.

Aren't you causing brake bia's by changing only the fronts to say AP racing ones in the first place. Obvious a huge upgrade to something like a 12 pot set up requires a lot of extra work and I wouldn't recommend it (it requires huge wheels, unneeded extra weight etc), but there are better and smaller set up's from other cars that are similar to what you would be doing by getting a brake kit. Most kits now days are universal and the mounting gear is the only difference between specific car set ups. The difference between AP racings GT86 6 pot kit and a evo X 's kit is literally just the mounting bracket. The pads/disk and caliburs are all generic brand parts so you create a braking bias doing just the fronts in the same way you would putting a set of brembo's of a similar size from another car onto a 86. 

[MartinT 514]

Isn't the need for BBKs a little over-stated for our cars?  I don't track mine and, despite the supercharger, I find my stock brakes very adequate to the task.  Perhaps only different pads are required in most cases?

[will300 812]

23 minutes ago, Kono said:

Aren't you causing brake bia's by changing only the fronts to say AP racing ones in the first place. Obvious a huge upgrade to something like a 12 pot set up requires a lot of extra work and I wouldn't recommend it (it requires huge wheels, unneeded extra weight etc), but there are better and smaller set up's from other cars that are similar to what you would be doing by getting a brake kit. Most kits now days are universal and the mounting gear is the only difference between specific car set ups. The difference between AP racings GT86 6 pot kit and a evo X 's kit is literally just the mounting bracket. The pads/disk and caliburs are all generic brand parts so you create a braking bias doing just the fronts in the same way you would putting a set of brembo's of a similar size from another car onto a 86. 

No, a properly specced BBK with the correct pistons diameters will have no affect on brake bias. There are multiple BBK that can bolt straight up to our hubs, a common cheap upgrade for the platform is to fit the front Brembo's from the Subaru Impreza STi, however due to the piston size within this specific caliper the brake ratio (front to rear) moves fowards by about 7% (i.e. in simple terrms, the car will nose dive more under heavy braking). However when Toyota/Subaru decide to offer the new blue edition 86 with a performance back, which has Brembo's as standard. These are the same calipers as the STi Brembo's however the pistons are smaller so they produce a similar brake ratio to the standard car. In a similar context when AP specced the calipers for our car they took into consideration the brake bias and increased disc sized and worked out the correct piston size needed. 

12 minutes ago, MartinT said:

Isn't the need for BBKs a little over-stated for our cars?  I don't track mine and, despite the supercharger, I find my stock brakes very adequate to the task.  Perhaps only different pads are required in most cases?

Stock brakes with a decent set of pads is perfectly fine for daily and spirited driving, it's only when you start doing track days do you notice their shortcomings, that is unless you decide to spend ££££'s on a set of proper race pads. 

[Church 209]

Kono: IF vendor has properly designed their kit to work together with OE, then retaining bias usually is taken care of. I don't know about your mentioned kit if it's designed to work in front-only upgrade or not, only with upgraded rears aswell. I know that Essex front-only sprint and endurance AP BBKs are made to work with OE rears to keep upgrade costs reasonable. There are different params that affect resulting brake torque. Piston area, pad area & shape, pad distance from rotating centre (or in other words rotor diameter) for example. Caliper bracket is just that, adapter to enable physically mount/connect specific car caliper on suspension of specific car.

Problem with shifting bias can usually go two ways, depending on bias change direction. In one way you may get extra instability under heavy braking, other way - longer braking distances, due one end underbraked (due other locking much sooner). Yes, car will stop, brakes will work, that might be considered acceptable for someone daily driving only (forgetting that there might be emergency braking for crash avoidance on public roads too) .. but work worse. If proper brake vendors for native for car usually try to retain bias change within eg. 2%, many of retrofits from other cars with different weight distribution, different suspension design, sometimes staggered OE tire sizing, possibly different master piston bias ratio in many cases probably will change resulting braking bias at wheels, past optimum ratio. In rare cases it happens that retrofit brakes from other cars really are same as from kits for other cars (at least partially, from one end) (for example, as our cars front calipers are from wrx (rears from legacy gt IIRC), then IIRC willwood 4-pot fronts only might be good choice).

So to summarize, even if retrofit is cheapest way to get good looking branded brakes on car .. even paying less to make worse seems wrong. Cheap calipers from some random car at breaker-yard to be fitted on random different car without doing lot of homework, or accompanying mods to "fix" .. better not.

[Kono 14]

39 minutes ago, Church said:

Kono: IF vendor has properly designed their kit to work together with OE, then retaining bias usually is taken care of. I don't know about your mentioned kit if it's designed to work in front-only upgrade or not, only with upgraded rears aswell. I know that Essex front-only sprint and endurance AP BBKs are made to work with OE rears to keep upgrade costs reasonable. There are different params that affect resulting brake torque. Piston area, pad area & shape, pad distance from rotating centre (or in other words rotor diameter) for example. Caliper bracket is just that, adapter to enable physically mount/connect specific car caliper on suspension of specific car.

Problem with shifting bias can usually go two ways, depending on bias change direction. In one way you may get extra instability under heavy braking, other way - longer braking distances, due one end underbraked (due other locking much sooner). Yes, car will stop, brakes will work, that might be considered acceptable for someone daily driving only (forgetting that there might be emergency braking for crash avoidance on public roads too) .. but work worse. If proper brake vendors for native for car usually try to retain bias change within eg. 2%, many of retrofits from other cars with different weight distribution, different suspension design, sometimes staggered OE tire sizing, possibly different master piston bias ratio in many cases probably will change resulting braking bias at wheels, past optimum ratio. In rare cases it happens that retrofit brakes from other cars really are same as from kits for other cars (at least partially, from one end) (for example, as our cars front calipers are from wrx (rears from legacy gt IIRC), then IIRC willwood 4-pot fronts only might be good choice).

So to summarize, even if retrofit is cheapest way to get good looking branded brakes on car .. even paying less to make worse seems wrong. Cheap calipers from some random car at breaker-yard to be fitted on random different car without doing lot of homework, or accompanying mods to "fix" .. better not.

See this is the kind of posts I love coming to the forums for. Genuinely learning stuff and that's good  I have always been a bit suspicious about uprating just the front breaks and see alot of 'big caliper' upgrades for the front only..at like around the £1500 mark, but notice that full all around upgrades by decent motorsport companies usually sit around 4-5K which is a huge difference considering usually back breaks are smaller. 

The 12 Pot calipers we got for my friends R33 where from some kind of 911 if i remember right and he took the back calipers too, and its apparently quite a common swap over for that particular skyline (maybe they shared same calipers for some kind of special edition or upgrade? Not sure). With what you guys are saying I'm starting to wonder about it, although the R33 is 750bhp he uses it strictly just for show so he could be using it as you say 'good looking brakes'.

50 minutes ago, will300 said:

No, a properly specced BBK with the correct pistons diameters will have no affect on brake bias. There are multiple BBK that can bolt straight up to our hubs, a common cheap upgrade for the platform is to fit the front Brembo's from the Subaru Impreza STi, however due to the piston size within this specific caliper the brake ratio (front to rear) moves fowards by about 7% (i.e. in simple terrms, the car will nose dive more under heavy braking). However when Toyota/Subaru decide to offer the new blue edition 86 with a performance back, which has Brembo's as standard. These are the same calipers as the STi Brembo's however the pistons are smaller so they produce a similar brake ratio to the standard car. In a similar context when AP specced the calipers for our car they took into consideration the brake bias and increased disc sized and worked out the correct piston size needed. 

Stock brakes with a decent set of pads is perfectly fine for daily and spirited driving, it's only when you start doing track days do you notice their shortcomings, that is unless you decide to spend ££££'s on a set of proper race pads. 

That's really informative thanks :D! Interesting to know that making the piston smaller helped alter the dip so much.... 

Also on the topic of upgrading pads for both daily and light track use, any recommendation? I have no intention of changing the calipers any time soon and have no issue with the current breaks but its yet to see a track. Same question for tires on the stock wheels, everyone just seems to say Piolet sport 4's 😕

[Darth Raknoor 1]

4 hours ago, Kono said:

Yeah! I'm pretty new here too and yet to meet anyone else with a 86 (except the lovely old lady who lives near me with one her son bought her) so cant wait to get out there and see some of y'all. Aside from the odd anglesea and oulton park track day mostly just been to local meets in the north west. Biggest events I've been to have been the Jap show and Mopar at Santa pod. I'm honestly kind of put off a lot of  car shows/events based around Jap cars because you always get a like 20% actual jap car turn up and about 200 astras and focus ST's with big bean cans turning up...

Last time I went to japfest at silverstone apart from the car park it was all just jap cars. 🙂 definitely worth going to.