Special K 442 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Merely to keep this Forum - and those who are interested - updated with my efforts to try and get some idea of what the autotrans that Toyo put into the GT86 is capable of . . I have had this trans torn apart, inspected, analysed. It has cost me in excess of £10grand over the past 12months. And it is crap. Even at 240bhp rating it will not handle circuit work, merely dragstrip. If you want to handle 240bhp on the road - or track - you will need the sump/pickup upgrade from Fensport or you risk oil starvation under sustained g-force. That is fact. If you want to go 280bhp you will need an uprated torque converter/ autotrans from SSP in the States. Even then you will still need to trans sump/pickup mods from Fensport. I've gone through four of these so-called SSP 'upgrades' - they are for drag events, not circuit where g-force is a major issue even on road tyres . . and I've learned of other track racers outside the US that have had the same problems. I have now given up and sold my current (400+ bhp) engine, as I would need to spend a further £15grand+ on a dct replacement that was reliable at this input and can be used on the road. My stroked HKS engine (with turbo) has been acquired by Stan Hawrylak. I am taking Stan's n/i for my car. I may or may not compete in TSS this year - a rebuilt SSP box arrived from the States last week and, if time permits, Fensport may or may not have it ready by April, time is no big issue for me . . (I no longer care about competing in TSS in a GT86, ... I may wander along to enjoy good friends' company, or have fun in a guest drive now and then. .) Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Sounds like you've come to the end of the road with the auto gearbox stuff, Keith, which is a shame, but what can you do really? Just a question, what is 'n/i'? If I'm reading this right are you going to compete with Stan's old engine then? Do you mean 'naturally aspirated'. And if so, does this mean you will be in my class. If so, I look forward to some competition. I've never found the TSS to be bitchy, quite the opposite in fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 really sucks to hear that the autobox is so poor, would've expected better from Toyota, hopefully they change it up on the refresh or I may have to resort back to manual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smudge 1020 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Sorry to see that you had all this trouble Keith, I can only respect the amount of time and effort you put into trying to fix what looks like an unsolvable problem! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinA 695 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Could be normally interfered with I agree with Lauren far from bitchy more towards friendly me thinks. Hope to see you at a round or two Keith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 Shame it didn't work out. Guess they didn't expect many auto box purchasers to be into tuning their cars. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted February 7, 2016 It's a real shame that it's all come down to this Keith, but when one chapter ends, another begins and I hope you have as much fun with the next project as you did (when things were going right) with your first 86 project. I hope to see you back in the TSS though Keith, we can be the 2 Keith's taking on Lauren and Kev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted February 9, 2016 On 07/02/2016 at 6:39 PM, Lauren said: Sounds like you've come to the end of the road with the auto gearbox stuff, Keith, which is a shame, but what can you do really? Just a question, what is 'n/i'? If I'm reading this right are you going to compete with Stan's old engine then? Do you mean 'naturally aspirated'. And if so, does this mean you will be in my class. If so, I look forward to some competition. I've never found the TSS to be bitchy, quite the opposite in fact. I meant 'n/a', Lauren. A slip of the finger . . I may go Cossie s/charged with Stan's engine - the modded autotrans will handle that power. I've been running 280bhp in road mode (map2) without hassle since Woodbridge last year - map 4 (a mere 320bhp) was available but track conditions never allowed a real trial and without my spare box in the UK I was unhappy to risk it. I'm not saying the problem is unsolvable, Smudge. It's merely that I've exhausted my personal commitment to it. And, as you know Smudge, once you've got the taste of more power in the GT86 you're addicted . .at my age point and squirt is about all I've got left . .) Spec K 1 smudge reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 It would be good to have another Cosworth car on the forums. Bare in mind though the Cosworth Kit is under rated a bit. On the Abbey dyno a 2.3 Cosworth car made 261WHP which is about the same as a HKS SC with the step 2 bigger 43mm restrictor...~300hp.... difference is though that the Cosworth SC will have a bit more low end torque which will put pressure on the autobox. Not trying to put you off at all, its an amazing kit with super low IATs even with track abuse, but just filling you in on the sort of power you'll get from it. I'm very happy with the Cosworth calibration too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 Thanks for your appraisal. I'm not planning to go 2.3 Cossie (at the moment). Merely give me a bit of the grunt that the std GT86 is so sadly lacking. I'll take it as it comes - 300WHP is pushing my auto boundaries. Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 now that Mike has announced that they are looking at UEL turbo manifold it's peaked my interest, what exactly issue the issue with the box on FI? if I were to take the route of going turbo and run it at 240/250whp or 280bhp at the engine is it the torque that kills it or just rapidly going through the gears? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Test Drives Unlimited 278 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 At the moment with all the problems Keith has had,it is currently putting me off going Turbo or Supercharger because of possibly damaging the Auto Box !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 same for me hence why I'm trying to establish at exactly what point it goes wrong to know whether its worth going FI at all as if I can safely have another 40bhp on top of what I have / extra 70-80bhp from standard then I'd be happy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 There's a couple of Auto SC cars floating around so it's entirely possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 20 minutes ago, knightryder said: There's a couple of Auto SC cars floating around so it's entirely possible. are they just road driven or any track abuse? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted February 15, 2016 6 hours ago, Tareim said: now that Mike has announced that they are looking at UEL turbo manifold it's peaked my interest, what exactly issue the issue with the box on FI? if I were to take the route of going turbo and run it at 240/250whp or 280bhp at the engine is it the torque that kills it or just rapidly going through the gears? 240whp is getting on for 80whp more than the standard setup, Tareim. That's one third more than the normal setup and is pushing the envelope. There are two issues that I encountered - the torque converter and the dog clutches. Both were dealt with by the upgraded SSP trans but the key issue was the oil surge robbing the dog clutches of lubrication. It was this that burned my box out at Woodbridge, hence the sump/pickup conversion. My current trans (used for two sprints and road use at 280whp since Woodbridge) will be going back to SSP for stripdown and evaluation when the car is ready. Might be worth waiting until I get some feedback, which I will pass on. Spec K 1 Tareim reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted February 16, 2016 Sad the hear this news. I think you got further than anyone else ever would have! Time, money and patience! All this aside you built a great car and used it for what it was meant to be used for! Thrashing about! You proved the AVO Turbo and the Engine could take some real abuse FI on track! And I thank you for that. On the bright side I think Stans also going to really show what can be done with your engine and a Manual box! Hope you don't give up with the GT86 all together! And hope to see you at some events! You will also be more than welcome to guest drive my Starlet at the sprints as and when it suits us both. It should be a little pocket of fun hopefully. 1 Special K reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 16, 2016 17 hours ago, Special K said: My current trans (used for two sprints and road use at 280whp since Woodbridge) will be going back to SSP for stripdown and evaluation when the car is ready. Might be worth waiting until I get some feedback, which I will pass on. Spec K so you were running over 300bhp at the engine then? looking forwards to hearing what ssp say after the stripdown Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Test Drives Unlimited 278 Report post Posted February 17, 2016 Yes look forward to your results Keith Sent from my Archos 53 Platinum using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted February 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Tareim said: so you were running over 300bhp at the engine then? looking forwards to hearing what ssp say after the stripdown Yes - 280whp on 0.9bar boost and just under 320whp on 1.05bar boost. 400+ is achievable - it is what Adrian was running last year without the stroked kit. Thanks for the Starlet offer, Jay - really would like to take you up on the offer. I'll be out of action for a little while. Subject to an MRI scan this afternoon I have to undergo on operation on my neck due to spondylosis and I've been told not to race, my Consultant was insistent. Fortunately the recovery time should be only a week (replacing the C2/C3 disk with titanium implant, I had it done on C3/C4/C5 disks six years ago) and I'm hoping he can do it end of March when I get back from States. Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tareim 343 Report post Posted February 17, 2016 sorry to be a pain but just want to double check that when you are saying 280whp and 320whp that you are referring to wheel power and not brake horse power which most of the FI kits refer to? as I'm more than happy with 280bhp rather than 280whp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted February 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Special K said: Yes - 280whp on 0.9bar boost and just under 320whp on 1.05bar boost. 400+ is achievable - it is what Adrian was running last year without the stroked kit. Thanks for the Starlet offer, Jay - really would like to take you up on the offer. I'll be out of action for a little while. Subject to an MRI scan this afternoon I have to undergo on operation on my neck due to spondylosis and I've been told not to race, my Consultant was insistent. Fortunately the recovery time should be only a week (replacing the C2/C3 disk with titanium implant, I had it done on C3/C4/C5 disks six years ago) and I'm hoping he can do it end of March when I get back from States. Spec K Did you have a stage 4 AVO billet turbo? AVO stage 3 is good for about 320hp (estimated crank) on ron99 with a ~185hp baseline. +73% Cosworth ~260WHP with a 165WHP baseline at abbey motorsport. +58% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LFA 68 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 keith, we must have that beer soon; hopefully you are well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rob275 1817 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, LFA said: keith, we must have that beer soon; hopefully you are well. I was thinking the same thing earlier today! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Hi Ed, Rob, Not too bright at the moment as I am due for an operation, seeing my neurosurgeon this Saturday and hope to fix a provisional date. A disc has gone in my neck and is causing partial paralysis of my left arm (spondylosis), hence I cannot compete at present. Off to States next week for 12 days, when I get back we can hopefully have a beer . . Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
