Harrop GT86 Eaton TVS1320

[MartinT 514]

If all goes well, I'll let you know next Wednesday when I drive it home.

[Winterhalder 10]

Mark and I have been chatting for a few months now as I have given him a verbal commitment for this SC. Unfortunately, Harrop are having stock issues and an ETA is not available. I am gutted and considering the HKS SC but everything I am told (primarily through Mark) is that it is quite different and the Harrop sounds like what I'm after - consistent improved torque through the revs, without any lag or surge (as is the case with a TC). If anyone at all has any comments or suggestions; hidden stock of the TVS1320, re-consideration of the HKS, alternate SC options, or any general thoughts - I would appreciate hearing them. Have really been looking forward to driving my boosted GT86 this summer! (with or without lockdown!).

[BRZ-123 174]

Mark and I have been chatting for a few months now as I have given him a verbal commitment for this SC. Unfortunately, Harrop are having stock issues and an ETA is not available. I am gutted and considering the HKS SC but everything I am told (primarily through Mark) is that it is quite different and the Harrop sounds like what I'm after - consistent improved torque through the revs, without any lag or surge (as is the case with a TC). If anyone at all has any comments or suggestions; hidden stock of the TVS1320, re-consideration of the HKS, alternate SC options, or any general thoughts - I would appreciate hearing them. Have really been looking forward to driving my boosted GT86 this summer! (with or without lockdown!).

Buy a Cosworth used as they no longer make it. Exactly the same as Harrop and better in my view with more R&D, smaller losses. Its a TVS 900 , not 1320. If you are serious, I can try and find the guy who had a brand new kit and wanted to sell it at full price (£5250 IIRC). Or join the Facebook buy and sell group and ask for it yourself.

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[Mark@Abbey M/S 235]

1 hour ago, BRZ-123 said:

Buy a Cosworth used as they no longer make it. Exactly the same as Harrop and better in my view with more R&D, smaller losses. Its a TVS 900 , not 1320. If you are serious, I can try and find the guy who had a brand new kit and wanted to sell it at full price (£5250 IIRC). Or join the Facebook buy and sell group and ask for it yourself.

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Yes they have smaller losses but the kit doesn't fit as nice/look a snice in our eyes that why we use the Harrop kit, regards R&D can you enlighten me please what Cosworth have done over and above what Harrop had done please? I presume you referring to the engine work they did in regards engine loading.

, exactly them same as Harrop did when they developed the kit , they have had a GT86 Development car for a long time.

[BRZ-123 174]

3 hours ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

Yes they have smaller losses but the kit doesn't fit as nice/look a snice in our eyes that why we use the Harrop kit, regards R&D can you enlighten me please what Cosworth have done over and above what Harrop had done please? I presume you referring to the engine work they did in regards engine loading.

, exactly them same as Harrop did when they developed the kit , they have had a GT86 Development car for a long time.

Thank you Mark. That's a great start to acknowledge that Cossie has smaller losses. 

On the looks department, they are very subjective and i have good forum friends who use this kit , so i dont want to get too judgemental. 

On balance, i prefer the clean no pipe design of the Cosworth SC. Harrop has too many flex pipes coming out. The pictures speaks a thousand words.

Are you saying having a test car is sufficient evidence that Harrop have been as thorough in their design? I am very keen to see them talking / writing about them having engine dynos  (not chassis or hub dynos please) which Cosworth has from their F1 experience and the engine being tested for 10000 hrs on full load vs no load for 30 sec interval each. If Harrop had done this kind of work, i would imagine it would be all over their marketing to show their prowress and i have seen none.

Individual cylinder pressure tailoring, calling out reliable power limits and their mathematical simulation software used for it, what are the weak points/failure points are, limiting factors are all signify amazing engineering and thorough R&D. Cosworth support the kit with tunes which they personally remote tune for every customer, whether the first owner or later. I have never seen this level of customer support and focus on perfection!

A company with one third the size  (revenue, resources, people) has the same credentials and ability to test is something you are saying and i find it very hard to comprehend. And on this note, i will carefully say that i am not slating Harrop but saying car industry (including aftermarket) is a highly resource intensive industry. There is a reason why Cosworth is used by Aston Martin to make the Valkyrie engine and Gordon Murray not Harrop unfortunately. And with this, i rest my case! 

 

 

[Jay Bamrah 29]

On 10/3/2019 at 9:55 PM, mattt said:

Looking forward to hearing how this goes. Also have TD UEL and would like to go Harrop SC in future.

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Hey did you ever go through with this 

[Mark@Abbey M/S 235]

10 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Are you saying having a test car is sufficient evidence that Harrop have been as thorough in their design? I am very keen to see them talking / writing about them having engine dynos  (not chassis or hub dynos please) which Cosworth has from their F1 experience and the engine being tested for 10000 hrs on full load vs no load for 30 sec interval each. If Harrop had done this kind of work, i would imagine it would be all over their marketing to show their prowress and i have seen none

I have no doubt Cosworth have a good name , Myself coming from a racing background numerous years in GT and Prototype Racing numerous having worked with/used numerous Cosworth power units , did Cosworth run a GT86 Engine for 10000Hrs on a dyno? Thats is a huge investment and  that would need to be passed on to the end customer.

 

 

10 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

On balance, i prefer the clean no pipe design of the Cosworth SC. Harrop has too many flex pipes coming out. The pictures speaks a thousand words.

You could say that the long intake pipe on the Cosworth is a little ugly and un-needed when the intake can go directly into the from of the Charger housing, like wise the Harrop Charge cooler pump is hidden away and the header tank built in the back of the Manifold which is a far tidier build.

 

10 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

A company with one third the size  (revenue, resources, people) has the same credentials and ability to test is something you are saying and i find it very hard to comprehend. And on this note, i will carefully say that i am not slating Harrop but saying car industry (including aftermarket) is a highly resource intensive industry. There is a reason why Cosworth is used by Aston Martin to make the Valkyrie engine and Gordon Murray not Harrop unfortunately. And with this, i rest my case!

What i find strange is Cosworth have stopped making the kit , wonder why this was, not profit making I presume , maybe not the sales or something they decided wasn't worth the effort.

Harrop have delete with GM and Toyota over the development and supply of SC kits for a long time as well, they maybe not as big name in the UK but they have been around since the 1950.s so they have a rich deep history in performance tuning.

Thanks

 

If everyone like the same thing it would be a boring world

 

[Neil-h 29]

16 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Buy a Cosworth used as they no longer make it. Exactly the same as Harrop and better in my view with more R&D, smaller losses. Its a TVS 900 , not 1320. If you are serious, I can try and find the guy who had a brand new kit and wanted to sell it at full price (£5250 IIRC). Or join the Facebook buy and sell group and ask for it yourself.

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It’s worth pointing out that the reason the TVS900 is more efficient is because it’s a much smaller blower. Consequently if the buyer decides they want more power in the future they’ll find the limit of the Cosworth kit a lot earlier as it simply isn’t capable of moving as much air as the Harrop kit.

[BRZ-123 174]

1 hour ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

I have no doubt Cosworth have a good name , Myself coming from a racing background numerous years in GT and Prototype Racing numerous having worked with/used numerous Cosworth power units , did Cosworth run a GT86 Engine for 10000Hrs on a dyno? Thats is a huge investment and  that would need to be passed on to the end customer.

 

1 hour ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

 

 

You could say that the long intake pipe on the Cosworth is a little ugly and un-needed when the intake can go directly into the from of the Charger housing, like wise the Harrop Charge cooler pump is hidden away and the header tank built in the back of the Manifold which is a far tidier build.

When Cosworth designed the kit the front inlet based TVS 900 did not exist. Harrop came in a bit later, so had the front inlet based Eaton option. The intake pipe made of aluminium and not silicone hose, shows the commitment to quality and looks amazing to me

1 hour ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

 

What i find strange is Cosworth have stopped making the kit , wonder why this was, not profit making I presume , maybe not the sales or something they decided wasn't worth the effort.

My understanding is Cosworth have changed strategy to come off aftermarket parts and kits, they now do a full end to end projects for manufacturers and racing teams. Not for the consumer after market. 

1 hour ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

If everyone like the same thing it would be a boring world

 

Undeniably so. That is the fun of choice for consumer.

[BRZ-123 174]

33 minutes ago, Neil-h said:

It’s worth pointing out that the reason the TVS900 is more efficient is because it’s a much smaller blower. Consequently if the buyer decides they want more power in the future they’ll find the limit of the Cosworth kit a lot earlier as it simply isn’t capable of moving as much air as the Harrop kit.

Good point, well made but lets get it into context. In the context of the capability of the car, the engine and other parts will give up far sooner than the Supercharger will reach its limits even with smaller pulley. It is about right sizing, not over sizing. Also refer to point 2 below, where Harrop will hit its limits far sooner.

Now that you get technical, lets put more things on the table for you to think through:

1. Ever wondered why Harrop need 0.7 bar to make the same power with a bigger blower while the Cossie does it with 0.5 bar with a smaller blower? The intake runners are not optimally sized in Harrop (short). 

2. Even though Harrop is designed in OZ, why are their intercooler cores a lot smaller and their high power car runs E85 not premium unleaded? The E85 is because the IAT will go very high on Harrop without it and you will pull timing and get knock before you hit your Blower limits  

For most common folks who just want a bolt on kit and more powah!, it is much of a muchness, but for the initiated, these things are imperative.

 

[Mark@Abbey M/S 235]

9 minutes ago, BRZ-123 said:

1. Ever wondered why Harrop need 0.7 bar to make the same power with a bigger blower while the Cossie does it with 0.5 bar with a smaller blower? The intake runners are not optimally sized in Harrop (short). 

Like for like on the same dyno?

 

 

[MartinT 514]

I'm not going to get into the debate of the relative worth of both superchargers except to make the obvious point that the Harrop is available (albeit with supply shortages) and the Cosworth is no longer available.

My observation of having lived with the Harrop for a year is that it is so OEM-like as to have become a part of the engine.  This is in terms of the look, the integration and, most importantly, how it drives.  It appears to be virtually maintenance-free although I will always have Abbey take care of it as and when needed.  My respect for it has gone up the more I have learned to drive and enjoy the BRZ with it fitted and with appropriate grip in terms of suspension and wheels/tyres.  It really is a pleasure to have lightning-fast responses (unlike any turbo I have ever driven) and torque where you most need it.  I have no regrets and, together with the Rogue EL manifold, it gives me great performance within the safe cylinder pressure limits that Mark has applied.

[BRZ-123 174]

Like for like on the same dyno?
 
 

Yes. You are welcome to test it on your dyno, if you so wish.

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[Mark@Abbey M/S 235]

Cosworth full kit (headers/exhaust) and SC kit with stock pulley and stock Cosworth tune  versus Harrop running stock pulley but full stock exhaust system inc both CATS. The one with the dip is the Cosworth the green single is the Harrop, BHP figures is at the HUBS