BHP PER TON

[CHOSENMAN007 81]

Just curious at what people think is the best BHP per Ton of a Gt86/BRZ. On paper 280bhp does not seem a lot by todays standard but if you look at power to weight is punches with some amazing cars standard. Hot hatches ie focus st produces far less.

I figure 240-250 seems the sweet spot as that is what most Forced inducted kits put out at stage 1. Turbo or s.c

280-290 (crank) to 1250kg car = 241 bhp per ton.

Just to put it in retro spec a

Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X FQ 400 -  is at 258bhp per ton

Porsche Cayman S 3.4l - [2012]  is 242bhp per ton

No end goal here just out of curiosity and to see where people are with their cars or if more power = less or more fun for a daily car : ) 

 

[Rich 378]

26 minutes ago, CHOSENMAN007 said:

I figure 240-250 seems the sweet spot as that is what most Forced inducted kits put out at stage 1. Turbo or s.c

280-290 (crank) to 1250kg car = 241 bhp per ton.

Eh? 290 crank is 232 bhp/ton. You need 301 BHP to hit 241 bhp/ton. I'd say 200 ish is about as much as you need on the road.

[S18 RSG 429]

Not sure there's such thing as "best" for such a subjective topic.

The standard car is supposed to be around 160hp/ton (according to official figures), but we all know through testing it's more like 145, and I think most would agree that's not enough.

However, while I might say mine is perfect at 220hp/ton, I've not driven anything with more power to find out if anything more than mine is too much.

I would agree with Rich, that anywhere around 200 would be great. At 220 I occasionally find situations where I have more power than I need, and others where I feel like I would like more power, so it's difficult for me to even give my own opinion.

FYI, if you're trying to work out your own figure, for stock weight on our cars, just do: Crank power x 0.8

[CHOSENMAN007 81]

26 minutes ago, Rich said:

Eh? 290 crank is 232 bhp/ton. You need 301 BHP to hit 241 bhp/ton. I'd say 200 ish is about as much as you need on the road.

Roger. I used a bhp per ton calculator either way same ball park. Would like to see how far or less people are going. I'd probably stay 230 240ish. Seems just right

[CHOSENMAN007 81]

33 minutes ago, S18 RSG said:

Not sure there's such thing as "best" for such a subjective topic.

The standard car is supposed to be around 160hp/ton (according to official figures), but we all know through testing it's more like 145, and I think most would agree that's not enough.

However, while I might say mine is perfect at 220hp/ton, I've not driven anything with more power to find out if anything more than mine is too much.

I would agree with Rich, that anywhere around 200 would be great. At 220 I occasionally find situations where I have more power than I need, and others where I feel like I would like more power, so it's difficult for me to even give my own opinion.

FYI, if you're trying to work out your own figure, for stock weight on our cars, just do: Crank power x 0.8

Thanks mate I got a rough estimate of mine. It is a very subjective subject but just looking for people's personal opinions on it. I'm mainly a road user so where I am is good. But ultimately 245-250 would be ideal.  

[Rich 378]

Mine feels good at 172 bhp/ton, but I could use a bit more sometimes. Partly it's delivery too - the standard car feels slower than it is because of the lumpy torque.

[dom2497 33]

I am running about 300 per ton, based on 330 bhp at the wheels dyno proven, circa 360 at the fly and 1200 kg. Driving on the road main issue is traction bit that's been resolved with some wide good rubber. On the road you have to hold back most of the time and it's rare to be about to go WOT. On the track it's perfect and the chassis doesn't feel overwhelmed with the power given the right supporting mods.

 

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[Ztox 230]

IMO 300 per ton (360 crank here) is the magic number but I'll probably stick with 280/290 crank power as I'll need to stop modding and buy a house after turbo  Will certainly be quick enough.

[CHOSENMAN007 81]

36 minutes ago, dom2497 said:

I am running about 300 per ton, based on 330 bhp at the wheels dyno proven, circa 360 at the fly and 1200 kg. Driving on the road main issue is traction bit that's been resolved with some wide good rubber. On the road you have to hold back most of the time and it's rare to be about to go WOT. On the track it's perfect and the chassis doesn't feel overwhelmed with the power given the right supporting mods.

 

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What size tires box or staggered?

[CHOSENMAN007 81]

22 minutes ago, Ztox said:

IMO 300 per ton (360 crank here) is the magic number but I'll probably stick with 280/290 crank power as I'll need to stop modding and buy a house after turbo  Will certainly be quick enough.

Turbo for sure

[Deacon 1357]

On the road I'd be happy enough with stock bhp but an extra 50 lbsft wouldn't go amiss. For track it'll be really interesting to see how the fi applications hold up - not that many people who are fi seem to track much.

[ThatGuyThere 54]

I can't imagine ever wanting more than the 250bhp/ton that I have.

When it's as fast in a straight-line as a Cayman S and M3, but lighter and likely quicker through the corners...why should I want more?

I'd get envy if a supercar overtook me, but then his brake setup likely cost more than my entire car, so the envy would be fleeting!

[Bfranklyn86 52]

35 minutes ago, Deacon said:

On the road I'd be happy enough with stock bhp but an extra 50 lbsft wouldn't go amiss. For track it'll be really interesting to see how the fi applications hold up - not that many people who are fi seem to track much.

I've been on track recently with my harrop s/c. It made me much quicker - I was able to (just about) keep up with my mate in a Cayman R. And I run the primacies wheras he is on fat PS4s. Before I supercharged it he used to lap me. (In fairness the BBKs I have also added may have something to do with it too).

As for ideal BHP/tonne - ideal for the chassis is probably is quite a lot (maybe 300 like ztox said), but 'ideal' doesn't take in to account when you need to build the engine, do the transmission and the axles. I've also heard it said that, no matter how much tyre you've got, traction above 300whp is very limited. Would love to find out for myself though.

[dom2497 33]

36 minutes ago, dom2497 said: I am running about 300 per ton, based on 330 bhp at the wheels dyno proven, circa 360 at the fly and 1200 kg. Driving on the road main issue is traction bit that's been resolved with some wide good rubber. On the road you have to hold back most of the time and it's rare to be about to go WOT. On the track it's perfect and the chassis doesn't feel overwhelmed with the power given the right supporting mods.

 

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What size tires box or staggered?

 

265/40/18 PS4 on the rear, 235/45/18 PS3 front. Needs arch rolling tho!

 

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[dom2497 33]

35 minutes ago, Deacon said: On the road I'd be happy enough with stock bhp but an extra 50 lbsft wouldn't go amiss. For track it'll be really interesting to see how the fi applications hold up - not that many people who are fi seem to track much.

I've been on track recently with my harrop s/c. It made me much quicker - I was able to (just about) keep up with my mate in a Cayman R. And I run the primacies wheras he is on fat PS4s. Before I supercharged it he used to lap me. (In fairness the BBKs I have also added may have something to do with it too).

As for ideal BHP/tonne - ideal for the chassis is probably is quite a lot (maybe 300 like ztox said), but 'ideal' doesn't take in to account when you need to build the engine, do the transmission and the axles. I've also heard it said that, no matter how much tyre you've got, traction above 300whp is very limited. Would love to find out for myself though.

 

Stock engine with a charger suits the car really well I think and saves a shedload of supporting mods. Then is more speed to be had out of the driver in most cases (including me) than dropping a load of money on the extra mods. I was lucky and got a pre built car.

 

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[Church 209]

I recall hearing Very Aproximate numbers like if power above 250hp per axle, car needs awd to completely/reliably by pure grip to put down to tarmac without slipping/easing on throttle/sticky tires/electonic gimmickry. And it seems like so, with many more powerful being awd, or with some advertised uber diffs+electronics,  Don't remember it was at crank or whp. But do recall old top gear video about amg merc, that even on dry, had traction control light lit almost all the time

Of course these days most modern cars have electronic TC/SC, and LSDs are not that rare of a beast, also FI engines with more torque are more common even among generic cheap family haulers. Many of us run sticky tires on track. But without any gimmickry in generic car with open diff on generic street tires 250 seems believable reasonable limit.

[Bfranklyn86 52]

1 hour ago, dom2497 said:

 

Stock engine with a charger suits the car really well I think and saves a shedload of supporting mods. Then is more speed to be had out of the driver in most cases (including me) than dropping a load of money on the extra mods. I was lucky and got a pre built car.

 

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I agree with this. I've gotten away with no supporting mods other than the brakes. The car is soooo much better FI than NA. Taking corners really fast is no longer the only source of excitement.

If I built the engine, did the exhaust, did the chassis mods......there is no chance it would have the same transformative effect of just going FI in the first place.

going back to the original question......... taking everything in to consideration (including value for £££) I would say absolutely ideal power for this car is around 260-270whp. I.E just within what the stock internals can hold.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Mine feels good at 172 bhp/ton, but I could use a bit more sometimes. Partly it's delivery too - the standard car feels slower than it is because of the lumpy torque.

 

Manifold fixed that, and mines probably quite fast enough at around the 200bhp it allegedly should have come from the factory with ;-)

 

That said it could certainly take more. The TD turbo demonstrator didn't feel like it had too much...

 

 

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