Sprinting mods in what order,bang for £££

[shiftspark 41]

Hi
I was wondering what gives the best improvement per £££ and in what order?
I am considering sprinting mine next year but in MSA events so have to comply with certain regs mainly no bearing top mounts which omits most coil overs except Ohlins.
The events are no more than one lap no more than a mile.

So the order I was thinking is this

1. Tyres (on standard rims )from list 1a probably Michelin pilot sport cups ( if they are allowed next year)
2.Brake pads , something to give a bit more bite but must work from cold ?
3.Suspension, I use mine everyday so not looking for a big drop but would you think Ohlins are worth the outlay esp if I need to use standard top mounts ? Otherwise something like Koni dampers with RCE springs
4.Full alignment after coilovers/dampers
5.Lower final drive
6.Manifold and remap or exhaust and remap as I shouldn't need the low down torque.
7.Lighter wheels but 17" x 8" max

What do you think and WHY ?

[Lauren 2259]

1. Tyres definitely. Sport cups won't be in the 1a list. Super sports are though. 

2. Stoptechs are not that expensive and work fine. No squeal either. 

3. You can fit Tein Street Advance, they use the stock topmounts. 

4. Yes, obviously! 

5. Yes you could do, but will compromise your cruising ability a little. Seems to make first very short. 

6. Manifold and remap, yes, do this. But have the decency to change your exhaust.  

7. Yes, 17x8 on stock tyre sizes works very well. Forged wheels are the way forward. 

8. Why don't you just enter the TSS? You can have pillowball mounts on your suspension then. You also get the benefit of competing against the rest of us.

[Deacon 1357]

1. Tyres (on standard rims )from list 1a probably Michelin pilot sport cups ( if they are allowed next year) - Pilot Sport 4's are out and meant to be a little better than the Super Sports. Pilot Sport 4s's are out at the start of 2017 but currently not in our size. These are meant to be a considerable improvement on the old Super Sports
2.Brake pads , something to give a bit more bite but must work from cold ? Project Mu Hc800+ have a 0-800 degrees range. They have excellent stopping power but they dust badly and eat discs.
3.Suspension, I use mine everyday so not looking for a big drop but would you think Ohlins are worth the outlay esp if I need to use standard top mounts ? Otherwise something like Koni dampers with RCE springs - Blisteins also don't have top mounts and a set of b16's may be good. They use progressive springs though which can be a bit rubbish on track. Ast will offer you any of their dampers without top mounts.
4.Full alignment after coilovers/dampers - Definitely. Without top mounts you'll need camber bolts and some adjustment at the rear - arms or camber bushes if they're legal.
5.Lower final drive - should work well for sprints.
6.Manifold and remap or exhaust and remap as I shouldn't need the low down torque - the td package seems to work well.
7.Lighter wheels but 17" x 8" max - there are plenty available on a budget (Fox Fx005's are 17x7.5 et35 and weigh just over 7kg but cost less for a whole set than some other wheels do each).

[Mike 458]

Tyres would definitely be first, can easily shave multiple seconds off with just grippier tyres.

Brake pads - not sure they'll matter for sprints? Temperature shouldn't be an issue, although I did manage to get mine smoking a little bit after 2 back to back runs earlier this year.

Manifold would be low on the list for sprints as like you say, the low end torque improvements shouldn't be noticeable on track. Exhaust + remap would be fine but again lower on the list as cost per time won't be as much as a decent set of tyres!

[shiftspark 41]

Hi

I would do the  TSS but the events are a long way away and I can't really do over night stops, the big benefit is more runs and not having to have fireproof overalls,gloves etc but I already have them so a moot point I guess.Also the regs are freer.

Any idea of the calendar for next year ?

I will have to wait on tyre lists before choosing tyres as like you say PSS 4 are not on it, yet.

Brakes tend to hold some heat after a few runs but not had any fade on the few events I have done.

Forgot about the cheaper wheels Deacon ! I also like the duckbill rear spoiler you have, that would not be allowed as it changes the silhouette 

Still not had enough spare weekend time to meet up Mike. (Td manifold?)

Thanks

[Deacon 1357]

13 minutes ago, shiftspark said:

Forgot about the cheaper wheels Deacon !

Konig Daylite's are also worth a look - a little more expensive but under 7kg a corner. If the rules allow I'd also look at the 16" Konig Helium's

[Lauren 2259]

It's a real shame you can't do over night stops. That's what makes it, really. A nice afternoon in the bar, plenty of banter and then dinner for about 20 of us, makes it a great social. 

Where are you based? 

[shiftspark 41]

2 minutes ago, Lauren said:

It's a real shame you can't do over night stops. That's what makes it, really. A nice afternoon in the bar, plenty of banter and then dinner for about 20 of us, makes it a great social. 

Where are you based? 

If I spend an afternoon in the bar drinking I wouldn't be out of bed before midday never mind driving lol

I am in Urmston probably not far from you ?

16" would alter the gearing as well does anyone use them?

[Mike 458]

43 minutes ago, shiftspark said:

Still not had enough spare weekend time to meet up Mike. (Td manifold?)

No worries, just drop me a PM when you get time, Urmston's only 15mins away from me.

TSS wise, if you can manage a ~2 hour drive in the morning, you're probably fine for 3 of the events, but as Lauren says there's a decent social aspect to it with the night before.

[Lauren 2259]

I've got a well sorted car for sprinting, been doing sprinting in it for three years now. Urmston is 15 minutes from Heald Green. Pop over, will give you a ride if that helps?

Just a tip, though I hit the bar in the afternoon, I stop around 8pm, sober up till 10pm, then go to bed. Sorted. 

Nobody can use 16's in the TSS, due to regs. So I haven't seen it no. Light 17's are just fine really. 

[KevinA 695]

Don't think you are allowed to reduce wheel diameter only increase.

[Deacon 1357]

"16" would alter the gearing as well does anyone use them?"

16's would only alter the gearing if you changed the tyre size which you could do with 17's too

[Church 209]

5 hours ago, shiftspark said:

Hi
I was wondering what gives the best improvement per £££ and in what order?
I am considering sprinting mine next year but in MSA events so have to comply with certain regs mainly no bearing top mounts which omits most coil overs except Ohlins.

That sounds to me not as much "except Ohlins", but rather "coilovers, that can be used with stock rubber top mounts". At very least KW V1/V3 (&RCE Tarmac Zero & Tarmac 2 on those), Bilstein B6/B8/B14/B16, Koni Yellows should fit the bill. And if it's for more track tailored and with price/performancy in mind .. i'm not sure Ohlins are best choice. They are not cheap, you won't be able to buy discontinued older set with square 6K rates, instead much softer 4K front/3K rear set. Konis should be fine choice .. if you are able to source from shop, that buys them in big batches and is able to select set without too big differences between dampers in it. RCE ones would be my first choice (as more track tailored KWs with good price/performance), but i wouldn't like warranty/serviceability hassles of US shop product. Not too familiar with Bilsteins. Probably would get KWs.

1. MPS4 (or MPS4S, if available), or AD08R, or RE71R, or RE11, or Z2SS or RS3, depending on what threadwear tires are allowed. For daily driving or trackdays with focus on fun, i'd prefer stock width, not get too much grip. To get most grip for competitiveness sake one can go for wider ones depending on what width is allowed, but grippier rubber of tires listed above should already net most extra grip needed.

2. Remember also flush with higher boiling point brake fluid, not just pads. Castrol SRF/Torque RT700/Project Mu G4. If you didn't mention aftermarket BBKs, those probably not allowed? Was going to suggest fitting air ducts to get most out of stock brakes, but that's not too cheap, and not sure, if brakes get hot enough during sprint races, not HPDE/track.

3. See beginning of post.

4. Of course camber bolts & (if allowed) rear LCAs for negative camber are highly advisable. Very good price/performancy mod (eg. camberbolts in both slots + SPC(/whitline/eibach) LCAs). Unfortunately i cannot advise only rubber mount option that allowed more camber, Whiteline Com C, where whiteline tried few iterations of getting bearings right, to not bind/fail, but failed and later discontinued Com Cs for our cars. About the only very slight improvement possible with still rubber mounts might be Group N mounts with stiffer rubber in them. BTW, stock "sized" springs/coilovers of bigger diameter may limit maxing out negative camber a bit, as spring perch may scrape to body at some point.

For squeezing most out of alignment, worth doing it with you sitting in car & doing full corner balancing.

What camber/toe to get may differ for what you aim and what your priorities are. For DD & track/HPDE i'd probably would get most (but same on sides) neg. camber i can get with bolts in front, for 0.5 less in rear, zero toe front, 0.1 toe-in in rear. For sprint? Not sure. Maybe even some toe-out in front, even though i wouldn't want that for DD/track.

5. If you have lot of money, add to that also close ratio gear set. If FD can help, depends on track layout, but probably it will do more good then bad in most/average, for still NA car.

6. Again if money no object and more track oriented, my choice probably would be Aftermarket air filter+Ace Type A/250 or CS400 header with Delicious Tune OTS ecutek tunes (&+E85). If car was LHD, i'd go for A/350, but yours probably RHD?

For best price/performancy - aftermarket drop-in filter + E85 ethanol fuel + OFT tune.

Imho not worth bothering with intakes and rest of exhaust, especially if price/performancy matters.

7. Of good price/performancy/quality/weight wheels are Enkei RPF1. Of less quality but even cheaper and of lower weight - Kosei K4R. OR - forged wheel sets bought used .