KobayashiMaru 28 Report post Posted December 15, 2016 Not good but good to know the dealer dealt with it. Like everyone else I'm interested to know why. Perhaps it is oil related. I've never had a car that needs 0w-20. 5w-30 was the norm but then every engine is different Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted December 15, 2016 Not good but good to know the dealer dealt with it. Like everyone else I'm interested to know why. Perhaps it is oil related. I've never had a car that needs 0w-30. 5w-30 was the norm but then every engine is different It's 0w-20 and I wondered about that too. Pretty thin that at high temperatures... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted December 15, 2016 Not good but good to know the dealer dealt with it. Like everyone else I'm interested to know why. Perhaps it is oil related. I've never had a car that needs 0w-30. 5w-30 was the norm but then every engine is different It's 0w-20 and I wondered about that too. Pretty thin that at high temperatures... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 It's not the specified oil that is causing an issue. There are plenty of engines not going bang after all that are using the OEM oil. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KobayashiMaru 28 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 37 minutes ago, Lauren said: It's not the specified oil that is causing an issue. There are plenty of engines not going bang after all that are using the OEM oil. Was just an idea as I've never put such a thin oil in a car before but I just wanted to know is this the new norm. If it's German it isn't. Even sports bikes run heavier oils. Did a bit of searching and while not conclusive, modern engines should be fine with this. Other manufacturers specify thicker oils only because they know they burn some. Next year we'll be getting the 86 mapped and a few bits done. Would be nice to know what caused it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 51 minutes ago, Lauren said: It's not the specified oil that is causing an issue. There are plenty of engines not going bang after all that are using the OEM oil. Sorry, not sure how you can draw such a definitive conclusion from that. We all know people who smoke for decades with no obvious ill effects, until they die of lung cancer. Doesn't mean smoking's okay. FTR mine's been serviced on schedule with Toyota fluids. It was even at Toyota Platinum Bath on the Monday having coilpacks replaced - they gave it a Winter check including fluids. Four days later developed death rattle and went bang a few miles later. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rob275 1817 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 It's already fairly common knowledge that the rods are weak and some are drastically stronger than others, i've been tracking my Supercharged 86 on 0w-20 for 2 years. Oil starvation is probably more likely than it being the oil weight imo. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ade 517 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 Firstly. Shit the bed, bad luck Mr Grover! I'm with Lauren and Rob, I doubt it will be the oil. Thin oil actually lubricates better and the only reason you would go to the thicker oil is to increase film strength if you see significant wear. Generally the film strength (for an oil specified by the engineers designing the engine) is an order of magnitude stronger than it needs to be to protect the big end bearings. The dip stick design is so poor on this car. When you take a reading, you are supposed to look at the lower of the two sides for the level. I wonder how many techs have read that little detail in the service manual. Of course you could just be unlucky, and a chunk of dirt or oil filter blocked one of the oil gallerys and caused starvation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 As it's apart, I'm having new clutch and replacing spark plugs - will save labour in the long run, for either me or next owner. Trying to decide whether to keep or sell. I'll think on it for a few weeks before deciding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varelco 211 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 I think it's starting to get well known that modern engines that run such thin oil are for reasons around economy/power (less drag). Thin oil doesn't lubricate 'better' what is 'better' anyway? Film thickness and strength is directly relatable to temperature and viscosity. I don't buy it, and the fact that some engines fail and others don't is not a reason to accept everything is hunky dory. None of these cars should be killing bearings this early on unless they have been neglected. 2 KobayashiMaru and Bfranklyn86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 Mine certainly uses oil - not excessively - but needs keeping an eye on. It's not encouraging - but we've got the warranty I suppose! I don't recall any other car I've had developing a tendency for the engine to go pop within three or four years :-( If anything I bet these cars get maintained pretty religiously on average - enthusiasts check oil etc... You're average company BMW rarely gets it's bonnet lifted between services... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
long-gone 152 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 Hmmm. Things have changed. Just had a call from Steven Eagell Toyota. Toyota is requiring return of failed parts for inspection before they'll honour warranty. Steven Eagell will repair at my expense and reimburse if proven Toyota fault. Not very happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KobayashiMaru 28 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 That could end up costing quite a bit. Have they quoted you yet? Is this common then? Seems to be quite a few in the States on 2012 cars and normally Scion's from what I've seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 Hmmm. Things have changed. Just had a call from Steven Eagell Toyota. Toyota is requiring return of failed parts for inspection before they'll honour warranty. Steven Eagell will repair at my expense and reimburse if proven Toyota fault. Not very happy. I think I'd be calling Toyota to find out on what grounds. Is it the mods that are the issue? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 I'm not surprised if I'm honest and you can't really blame them for taking such a stance. The car is running performance enhancing mods and a remap, the dealership would be out of pocket if TGB refused the claim and as far as TGB know there could be a cause that isn't a factory issue. So long as it's not been knocking it's arse off and killing the rods/pistons/bearings and services have been carried out as per the schedule then you should be fine. Knowing people that work for Toyota, it's common place for parts to be sent off for inspection/diagnosis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, KobayashiMaru said: Is this common then? Seems to be quite a few in the States on 2012 cars and normally Scion's from what I've seen. That's because there's more Scions that Scoobies and there are a larger number stateside than here. Laws of probability. The build/engines are no different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicebiscuit 655 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 I don't blame the dealer - but I think Toyota could be more accommodating. Let's face it it's a gamble to pay for extensive rebuild work at main dealer rates on the offchance Toyota might cough up. If the car were out of warranty you'd take it somewhere cheaper... It puts all the risk on the owner, not to mention trusting Toyota to be unbiased in their diagnosis. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 I'd be more pissed that they said one thing and then went back on it. They should have said from the off that this was likely. The issue is that as it's within warranty, would you risk taking it somewhere cheaper if there was a chance the warranty would sort it? The route I would take is let TGB take the engine and then decide where I want a new one put in, but then I don't need my car as a daily. Time to put a 2ZZ in it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted December 16, 2016 Sorry to hear this dude, you were one of the early adopters weren't you? Is this the same car? Please keep us posted. To be fair, it doesn't surprise me that they'd want you to cover it and reimburse you later considering the cost of the parts and work if TGB refused to pay the dealers, at which point you'd have had the car back etc. by then. Sent from my EDI-AL10 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfranklyn86 52 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Sorry to hear this has happened, and that Toyota are being difficult. I know the cause is currently unknown, but does this put a baffled oil sump higher up anyone's shopping list? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, Bfranklyn86 said: I know the cause is currently unknown, but does this put a baffled oil sump higher up anyone's shopping list? Not without any supporting evidence, no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Bfranklyn86 said: I know the cause is currently unknown, but does this put a baffled oil sump higher up anyone's shopping list? A baffled sump will only help if oil starvation is an issue from hard cornering. I'd imagine you'd never corner hard enough on the road for that to rear it's head. Plus there have been issues with some of the baffled sumps, restricting oil return. I know that's meant to be sorted on the Moroso ones now, but even the early versions created issues rather than sorting them. If you keep your oil near the max and don't run slicks then a baffled sump isn't really required. I wonder whether one of the valve rockers has gone, this seems like a weak point on the early engines. The problem there is whether a higher rev limit has been added as this will increase the probability of a failure. 1 Bfranklyn86 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Well, it does have a Fensport remap, so the rev limit will be raised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bfranklyn86 52 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, knightryder said: A baffled sump will only help if oil starvation is an issue from hard cornering. I'd imagine you'd never corner hard enough on the road for that to rear it's head. Plus there have been issues with some of the baffled sumps, restricting oil return. I know that's meant to be sorted on the Moroso ones now, but even the early versions created issues rather than sorting them. If you keep your oil near the max and don't run slicks then a baffled sump isn't really required.. I was thinking of the sump with track safety in mind. But it just gets me worried seeing NA engines go like this. Want to take all precautions, if you see what I mean. I would also assume oil surge is something that is quite hard to prove or disapprove, unless there is another smoking gun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86-Ian 351 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Lauren said: Well, it does have a Fensport remap, so the rev limit will be raised. My Fensport remap has not raised the rev limit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
