Big Brakes On Track

[Ade 517]

Ps brake fade is when the coefficient of friction drops off due to high temps. Brakes still work but you need more pressure. In extreme cases your pedal can hit the end stop and still not produce enough pressure to lock the wheels.

[MikeB 79]

I have found DS2500's OK with standard disc as I am hard on the brakes and need plenty of feel with hand controls and you more than welcome to have a try before you buy!

[Carbon Ninja 0]

DS2500 doesn't have the initial bite like others. However they are quite linear and ok for road. Once get up to temp the bite progress really apparent.

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[Rich196 103]

I have a very strong dislike for my DS2500 on the standard calliper set-up. I find they fade after 3 hard laps which is no good to me. I shall be swapping them out ASAP

[Keethos 842]

It's surprising the responses on the Ferodo's, I've heard good things up until now.  I have a couple of used sets which I'll try and before buying anything new. 

[Ade 517]

4 hours ago, Rich196 said:

I have a very strong dislike for my DS2500 on the standard calliper set-up. I find they fade after 3 hard laps which is no good to me. I shall be swapping them out ASAP

I got more than 3 laps, but my car was N/A and on primacies at the time.

The supercharger and semi slicks on your car put a lot more pressure on the brakes so I can see how it'd be easy to overheat a set of DS2500.

Just now, Keethos said:

It's surprising the responses on the Ferodo's, I've heard good things up until now.  I have a couple of used sets which I'll try and before buying anything new. 

I liked them but prefer project mu HC800+ on stock brakes. Since you have bigger discs (more thermal capacity) the DS2500 might hold up fine for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ade 517]

If you have some used ones bare in mind when switching pads that it takes a while to bed in the new compound. You'll effectively have some of the K sport pad compound on the discs and then changing to DS2500 pads. Expect them to feel a bit weird until properly bedded in. 

[Keethos 842]

Thanks Ade, will keep that in mind.

[DanJ 374]

I had hideous judder until the remnants of Streetmaster pads were cleaned off my front discs, flipping awesome once they were probably bedded in though as you know :-)

[Rich196 103]

3 hours ago, Ade said:

7 hours ago, Rich196 said:

I have a very strong dislike for my DS2500 on the standard calliper set-up. I find they fade after 3 hard laps which is no good to me. I shall be swapping them out ASAP

I got more than 3 laps, but my car was N/A and on primacies at the time.

The supercharger and semi slicks on your car put a lot more pressure on the brakes so I can see how it'd be easy to overheat a set of DS2500.

Two circuits:

Donny GP shocking fade actually had to take avoiding action of a RX8 who decided to tread the red flag like he was karting and come to a near full stop.

Snetterton 300 they were better, but it was damp, still got some fade, and they got progressively noise as they day went on, didn't inspire confidence but they still worked.

Switching to carbotech xp10, I have full confidence that they will be better in every way. Ill let you know how I get on.

[Lauren 2259]

I'd be wary of the carbotech. Brilliant though they are, the squeal drove a friend bonkers, he switched back to stock pads in the end. 

[Leosille 17]

Thread resurection, I'm looking into brake upgrades, was initially just looking into pad and lines change. I try to do a lot of research on the US forums, @Keethos have you looked at changing the brake master cyclinder? I'm aware they like the Grimmspeed version out there as the brake bite comes in a lot sooner could possibly help you?

I'm beginning to think for the long run it may be worth just investing in a BBK, it seems AP Racing are the logical soloution unless anyone knows of any cheaper alternatives which are as good or nearly? Also I'm not sure if anyone can answer but are the UK oem calipers and discs from the Subaru WRX?

[Ade 517]

Yes and no. Fronts are wrx 295x24mm disc. Rears are legacy 290x18mm with 190mm parking brake.

In the long run bbk will save you in costs. I was going through a set of pads in 2-3 trackdays.

Few popular options are:

1) sti brembos. Check out DanJs thread for info on that.

2) stoptech or ap gt86 kits

3) mine which are subaru wrx bbk for the front. You need to swap the bleeders as they are leading not trailing calipers. I bought and old set and got them refurbished with swapped bleeders. Some information on my thread about that (I think).

[Leosille 17]

1 hour ago, Ade said:

Yes and no. Fronts are wrx 295x24mm disc. Rears are legacy 290x18mm with 190mm parking brake.

In the long run bbk will save you in costs. I was going through a set of pads in 2-3 trackdays.

Few popular options are:

1) sti brembos. Check out DanJs thread for info on that.

2) stoptech or ap gt86 kits

3) mine which are subaru wrx bbk for the front. You need to swap the bleeders as they are leading not trailing calipers. I bought and old set and got them refurbished with swapped bleeders. Some information on my thread about that (I think).

Cheers @Ade I'll have a look at them threads, I kept seeing Alcon and Wilwood come up, the Alcon are very expensive just like the AP Racing. I may try the stoptech pads if i'm impressed with them the possibly go for their bbk.

Any knowledge of the K sport? It also seems that for most of the bbk an 18 rim is required, another expense lol.

[Ade 517]

If you are not of track/race pad yet then don't worry about a big brake kit.

AP do a kit that fit behind the stock rims. It's okay for na power but not if you have forced induction. 333mmx26mm it's a bit thin.

[Keethos 842]

The solution for my long pedal travel was purely new pads, turns out the pads I put in pretty much crumbled to pieces (old part worn K Sport ones I believe). Now I've got a fresh pair of Yellow Stuff and the pedal is back up top. I've mentioned before, I only went BBK primarily for their looks as there are plenty of disc and pad solutions which will do the job very well too, even for track use and when going FI. The 330mm discs can fit over 17'' stock wheels (but it very close diameter wise, may need to keep the wheel weights clear out of the way though) but the spokes of the wheels are an issue so spacers would be needed or aftermarket 17'' wheels with a bigger offset would be ideal.

[Ztox 230]

@Mike@TD.co.uk has KSport front and rear BBK I believe so he'll probably have some opinions, I've been out in it and the stopping power seemed... well, silly. But I guess any front and rear big brake setup would do similar. They are what I'd get, for the price to performance ratio. Those or the the D2 ones.

@adam has some front and rear KSport kits for sale if you're in the market now, page 2 of for sale section if you wanted to look.

[Leosille 17]

1 hour ago, Ztox said:

@Mike@TD.co.uk has KSport front and rear BBK I believe so he'll probably have some opinions, I've been out in it and the stopping power seemed... well, silly. But I guess any front and rear big brake setup would do similar. They are what I'd get, for the price to performance ratio. Those or the the D2 ones.

@adam has some front and rear KSport kits for sale if you're in the market now, page 2 of for sale section if you wanted to look.

@Ztox I did see them for sale, I'm not in urgent need of the brakes atm as haven't got any track work planned and won't be back at the ring until March/April next year, but I like to know what I plan on buying. If he has no interest I may make an offer in a couple months.

[Ade 517]

Stock disc and good pads go a long way, and are okay if you do short runs like a few laps only at a time. But if you want to do 20min or more sessions and you are fairly quick, the pads won't last long. I wasted a rather expensive set of ds2500 and a set of project mu hc800+ over the course of 5 trackdays. That's 300 odd £ in pads. The main problem being the taper in the worn pads but they were unusable.

If you only want to do 10min sessions like a lot of people do, a good fast road pad works well. I like cosworth Street master. If you want to do a bit more then project mu hc800+ but you are getting into race pad territory so expect them to glaze easily and squeal a lot "around town".

[Leosille 17]

15 hours ago, Ade said:

Stock disc and good pads go a long way, and are okay if you do short runs like a few laps only at a time. But if you want to do 20min or more sessions and you are fairly quick, the pads won't last long. I wasted a rather expensive set of ds2500 and a set of project mu hc800+ over the course of 5 trackdays. That's 300 odd £ in pads. The main problem being the taper in the worn pads but they were unusable.

If you only want to do 10min sessions like a lot of people do, a good fast road pad works well. I like cosworth Street master. If you want to do a bit more then project mu hc800+ but you are getting into race pad territory so expect them to glaze easily and squeal a lot "around town".

You must do a fair bit of track work then? Thanks for all the information just makes it tricky on which pads to go for first time round lol. Have you tried the Hawk or Stoptech pads? Any idea how they compare to the Cosworth? 

[Ade 517]

I don't do that many track days but I've had the car 4 years so in that time I've done quite a few. This year ive only done 4 so far.

Can't comment on the hawk or stoptech pads as I've never tried them.

Quite a few people like the yellowstuff too.

[Lauren 2259]

I've had Stoptech pads on the for the last year. I compete in the sprint series and do the odd track day. They've actually been pretty good. Of course it depends how you drive on track. If you just slam on the brakes on the approach to every corner, then not much will cope. But if you have a degree of progression to your braking and are sympathetic, I find them absolutely fine on track. I'll tend not to do more than five laps or so at a time, just for the sake of not murdering the car and oil temp and all that, but they work well enough and there is no squeal at all. Given their price, it's a win-win situation. 

[Leosille 17]

On 19 September 2016 at 3:12 PM, Lauren said:

I've had Stoptech pads on the for the last year. I compete in the sprint series and do the odd track day. They've actually been pretty good. Of course it depends how you drive on track. If you just slam on the brakes on the approach to every corner, then not much will cope. But if you have a degree of progression to your braking and are sympathetic, I find them absolutely fine on track. I'll tend not to do more than five laps or so at a time, just for the sake of not murdering the car and oil temp and all that, but they work well enough and there is no squeal at all. Given their price, it's a win-win situation. 

Thanks @Lauren