Camber bolts?

[Zmithy 4]

Forgive me for being stupid!

Had a good search of the forum and can't seem to find my answer.

I've got a set of Eibach Pro springs to pop on (35mm drop) and I've seen a few people mention camber bolts and rear subframe bush inserts.

Can some possibly explain in ley mans terms what exactly it does, what is needed, necessary, what and where from?!

Thanks!

[Lauren 2259]

Camber bolts on the front strut enable you to adjust the camber to a point anyway. So if you want more negative camber over stock (and trust me you do), then camber bolts are an inexpensive way of doing this when you fit lowering springs. About £30 from Fensport.

 

For the rear, when you lower it there is no provision to set camber. So you need offset bushes for the lower arms, which allow you get the camber equalised and achieve the desired amount on the rear. Again available from Fesnport. Check their website for the price but around £50. 

[Zmithy 4]

So Lauren,

Just to be clear, you'd say to get them both if lowering?

[smudge 1020]

Definitely, why would you do 1 axle but not the other?

[Kodename47 446]

Definitely, why would you do 1 axle but not the other?

Because lowering already gives more negative camber at the rear....

FWIW, It's not necessary at all.

[Zmithy 4]

This is why it's so confusing! Mixed messages :L

What would the consequences be of dropping it without them, and fitting them at a later date? (Other than already being in the wheel well whilst fitting them)

And then when fitted, tracking to be done again to be sure?

[Lauren 2259]

Well, you would be best to get the front camber bolts. A bit more negative camber the front helps turn in. 

 

For the rear, you may get lucky and lowering will increase the negative camber and it may be just right. If it's within half a degree either side it's not too bad. 

 

You have to redo your geo setup, yes. Changing the springs and lowering the car will change the geometry. 

[Zmithy 4]

Perfect. Will probably get the bolts as well as the rear bushes just to be safe.

[Varelco 211]

Well, you would be best to get the front camber bolts. A bit more negative camber the front helps turn in. 

 

Out of interest Lauren how much do you reckon on a road car?

 

Zmithy im about to lower mine by 25mm and just have the front camber bolts. The camber will increase naturally on the car as it goes lower so I will use the camber bolts on the front to match whatever the rear settles too. If there is a noticeable difference between each side at the rear I will get the camber bushes.

[Zmithy 4]

Think I'm gonna do the same Varelco.

Got the opportunity to get it on a ramp today as well as an extensive set of tools, including posh spring compressors .

Then get the Camber Bolts ordered and slap them on the car in a week or so. Will see how the rear is and how it feels. Then get the alignment done.

Anyone see any major safety issues with doing this?

[Lauren 2259]

Well, I run 2 deg neg camber on the front and 1.75 on the rear. 

 

I've had this setup for 18 months and about 40K miles. My last set of front tyres wore down a lot on the inside edge but the previous set didn't noticeably. Though admittedly I run down the last set (which were part worn when I got them) down to 2mm. 

 

There are no safety issues with doing this. It makes the car feel sharper and improves turn-in. Sure if you want a 'safer' handling setup keep stock camber and toe all round. But if you like to corner hard, it certainly improves things. I haven't got lowering springs, I've got coilovers, so no need for camber bolts on the front, though I do have the offset bushes on the lower wishbones for the rears, so I can equalise the camber properly. 

[STEVO9000 54]

I have a brand new set of super pro rear bushes up for grabs. I bought for mine and I didn't need to use them, never been fitted, packaging opened to check contents. Pm me if you're interested

[Kodename47 446]

Mine on Litchfield springs, no form of aftermarket camber adjustment runs (on last alignment):

F: -0.37 / 0.03

R: -1.56 / -1.38

I'll probably throw some front bolts on the next time I get it setup, however it doesn't feel like it needs it. For the cost it's usually a no brainer though.

[Lauren 2259]

That's nothing on the front, though Steve. The rears are pretty close though. 

[Kodename47 446]

That's nothing on the front, though Steve. The rears are pretty close though.

I am aware of that, but the fronts are no different to how it "comes from the factory". Is it ideally suited to track applications? No. Is it fine for road abuse? Certainly. While more negative camber is beneficial, it is far from being a necessity.

[Lauren 2259]

Stock camber or lack of it is okay, but leads to vagueness on turn in and understeer. So it's a 'safer' setup. 

 

Given that camber bolts cost pretty much nothing, why wouldn't you really?

[Keethos 842]

You'll only need camber bolts if you want more camber or to equalise the setup, as you can see from knightryder's setup, his wasn't even and to be fair, neither were mine but mine was worse, my rears were -0.57deg Left and -1.55deg Right so when I had my coilovers fitted, I had to get some camber bolts and bushes to even them out and to push them as far as I could which was only -1.75deg on one side so had to make the other side match which could have gone further.  I'm not the only one who's experienced this, Kristov I believe also had odd camber and couldn't get one side further than a certain amount of camber where as the other side could go further.  Luckily I got mine setup at Fensport who could also supply the bits while I was there if need be.

[Kodename47 446]

as you can see from knightryder's setup, his wasn't even and to be fair, neither were mine but mine was worse

You'll only ever get them to match mainly by luck. If you consider changing toe has an effect on camber and vice versa, it's always a best effort so you just try and get them within a set range rather than an identical figure. Think about how much of a change 0.1 deg is and then the fact you have to set the alignment up when the car is loaded, it's not like you can make adjustments and lock off the settings when you hit a magic number. It's pretty much continuous trial and error.

I've seen alignment machines "accept" +/-0.2 deg as a pass. That's a range of 0.4 deg on each corner.

TBH I'd rather be concerned at total toe settings rather than that last 0.1 deg of camber

[Keethos 842]

That maybe true in your case but not in mine, almost a whole degree out which meant I needed camber bushes and same could apply to the OP as well. He'll just have to get them fitted and setup to see if he needs more camber or not.

[Sonic 4]

when I dropped mine ( about 25mm at the back , 30mm at the front) I had to fit camber bolts to the rear to get the camber back to stock as I do most of my driving on the roads and felt the 2.5 degrees  I was getting on the back was a bit excessive

[Zmithy 4]

Next query..

Springs are all fitted, everything is properly tight as I made sure to triple check, especially top mount bolts. Did not use an air gun on them.

All back together and there is a loud knock from the rear left, sounds like it's banging when the spring rebounds after being compressed.

Could the top mount affect this, by being on backwards for example? Had to twist it about 45 degrees to get it to sit in the holes.

Reckon it could be that?

Looks like I'm whipping that corner out again!

[rob275 1817]

Next query..

Springs are all fitted, everything is properly tight as I made sure to triple check, especially top mount bolts. Did not use an air gun on them.

All back together and there is a loud knock from the rear left, sounds like it's banging when the spring rebounds after being compressed.

Could the top mount affect this, by being on backwards for example? Had to twist it about 45 degrees to get it to sit in the holes.

Reckon it could be that?

Looks like I'm whipping that corner out again!

 

Is the knock occasionally or frequent?

[Zmithy 4]

It's wen I go over bumps in the road. quite frequent noise. Sounds like the spring is rebounding and knocking.

Jacked it up last night on my drive to try and whip the strut out and check it all, couldn't manage it on my own. Should be getting it on a ramp at the weekend to whip it out properly and check.

Took a video on my phone last night with it jacked up and me pushing the wheel up, can hear a noise, will try and get it uploaded.

[S18 RSG 429]

It's wen I go over bumps in the road. quite frequent noise. Sounds like the spring is rebounding and knocking.

Jacked it up last night on my drive to try and whip the strut out and check it all, couldn't manage it on my own. Should be getting it on a ramp at the weekend to whip it out properly and check.

Took a video on my phone last night with it jacked up and me pushing the wheel up, can hear a noise, will try and get it uploaded.

 

Whatever you find the issue to be, let me know, cause I've just had springs, camber bolts and bushes fitted to mine, and having a similar knock from the rear.

 

Would be interested to know what causes it so I can get the garage to fix it.

[Zmithy 4]

Update!

Turns out when my friend used the air gun on the struts we destroyed the shock absorber seals! Yayyyu!

Knocking was purely down to no absorption on the shocks at all. Wondered why it was so bumpy.

Very good springs but would reccomend Using a spanner and Allen key rather than air gun!

Gone down the coilover route now. And no knocks! Hurrah.

Tracking to be done my Fensport some day, with camber bolts and rear camber bushes.

S18, don't wanna sound negative but have a quick look at the bottom of your shocks. If it's wet maybe you have the same problem. I hope for your wallets sake you don't!