Nige's Wide Body Project

[Tim Radley 18]

Special K.  Fat women eat that to increase their bowel movements.  Haha sorry only jesting

[KevinA 695]

I enjoy Nigels expertise and motivation, keep up the good work.

[Guest]

@Nigelr32 Clear your PM box mate, require a favour.

 

p.s. Ignore Special K's comments.

Done mate

[Guest]

+1. Keep it up Nigelr32

What do you think of these little snippets then.. I've gone mad!!

Tunnel mods are not absolutely necessary for the Samsonas box, but as I will be moving the engine back I felt I should do it.

 

 

 

 

[Tareim 343]

lucky you have a rollover jig otherwise that'd be an absolute nightmare, keep up the good work

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

Nige, We all know this build is going to be awesome and feckin quick, will you be getting any driver training before going on track or are you fully up to speed anyway?.

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Mark-in-Stoke

[Guest]

I've done a few Sprints, some track days, owned three GTR's and had a couple of Porsches.

To be fair, this is gonna be a handful, but with a great Motec map it should be fairly user friendly. Hey, if I stuff it into a wall, I've always got another one I could build

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

I've done a few Sprints, some track days, owned three GTR's and had a couple of Porsches.

To be fair, this is gonna be a handful, but with a great Motec map it should be fairly user friendly. Hey, if I stuff it into a wall, I've always got another one I could build

Will you stop this!

No negative comments please, especially about "stuffing anything in the feckin wall". I couldn't take it!

 

On another note it will be interesting to see what you think of the 86 compared to the other cars you've had

Edited October 17, 2015 by Mark-in-Stoke

[shiftspark 41]

Mad lol good work!

Not sure if you have already said Nigel but when do you think it will be finished ? Or will it be done when it's done type of build.

[Guest]

Will you stop this!

No negative comments please, especially about "stuffing anything in the feckin wall". I couldn't take it!

 

On another note it will be interesting to see what you think of the 86 compared to the other cars you've had

I think it will be the best thing I've ever driven. I've always wanted an excuse to have a sequential 'box and a proper pedal box.

Mad lol good work!

Not sure if you have already said Nigel but when do you think it will be finished ? Or will it be done when it's done type of build.

It'll be done when it's done. I keep getting deeper and deeper into it. Like for example, I'm considering making a carbon roof now!! And adding race air jacks!!

Today I've been working on measuring the front geometry. I will be making new control arms, turretting the strut mounts and adding caster. The stock car looks like it only has less than 5 degrees of caster, not enough in my opinion.

Come on people, ask some questions about why I've cut it up. There's even less left of it than in the pics above now.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nigelr32

[AJ124 118]

If you are getting into carbon parts Nigel, will your rocket Nigel bunny kit be made in carbon? 

Absolutely love your build, keep up the good work.

Edited October 17, 2015 by AJ124

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

Love how you make the word MAKING sound sooo very feckin easy , on a different note do you think your warranty is void ?

[KevinA 695]

Nige, We all know this build is going to be awesome and feckin quick, will you be getting any driver training before going on track or are you fully up to speed anyway?.

 

A few us would offer our services.

[Guest]

If you are getting into carbon parts Nigel, will your rocket Nigel bunny kit be made in carbon? 

Absolutely love your build, keep up the good work.

I doubt it AJ. Believe it or not, I actually don't like Carbon. I think GRP will be fine, especially considering I will be cutting part of the arches out for tyre clearance!!

Love how you make the word MAKING sound sooo very feckin easy , on a different note do you think your warranty is void ?

ANYONE can make ANYTHING if they apply themselves and don't get distracted. I was actually thinking of trailering in for it's 12 month service, just to keep the warranty up to date.

A few us would offer our services.

Kev, you're the guy who used to race Lancers yeah? If so, you're more than welcome..

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nigelr32

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

Kev, Driver training is something I will be doing next year. 

[Sonic 4]

I am impressed, Nige . .

.. the Samsonas is as Adrian's, so no dramas there - are you doing your own gearbox mount, or buying in?

But ... dry sumping? . . this is unknown territory. A huge (and unjustified) risk, in my opinion - you have no control over any element of the build and nothing is adjustable. There is no data on GT86 UK track/road use that qualifies this is safe - if it fails you don't just blow the engine, you WILL dump 7 litres of oil . . and with your current install program you will be scalded by seriously hot engine oil, lose control and cause a problem.

I can see no clear idea from you on catch tank/oil-water separation in your installation and, having reviewed the weblinks you provided, I would have safety/practical issues on this. With respect to your efforts to date they have focussed on chassis issues - you are not an engine/trans/race development specialist and this, in my mind, is a mega -step too far . .

Don't wanna curb your development ideas. But I could be the poor sod following you at TSS / Time Attack next year when you dump a shedload of oil when a hose blows at 12Bar . . and costs someone their life.

Reflect, please . . this turns fun into fear.

Spec K

 

come come, dry sumping isn't some dark art thats right at the bleeding edge

this build is a race car  and as such requires a dry sump, especially on a flat engine which are more prone than inline  or Vee configurations for oil hang up

as long as the tank volume is  a good size with baffling and the entry point is tangential so the oil can swirl around the tank and de-aerate and the blow-by air can also be vented to the air space at the top of the dry sump tank so there's no need for a seperate catch can

 

also the hoses shouldn't be running at 12Bar unless something is seriously wrong

typical back pressures on a well designed system should be about 0.3 to 0.5bar of back pressure to the dry sump pump, the engen pressure pump is unchanged of course so internal oil pressure remains the same as stock and is contained within the engine

 

[Keethos 842]

Ok Nige, I'll bite why have you modded the trans tunnel but I'm also interested in why you've said that you don't think the car has enough caster, what is the stock caster angle and what angle would you want and why?

[Special K 442]

Nige - I had no wish to upset you and I am , like everyone else, full of admiration at your skill and dedication at doing what you are doing. Unlike you, I do not have the experience, the time nor the space to consider such an undertaking and I am sure I am not alone. That is why I, and many others, use the knowledge and expertise of Adrian, Mark et al. It is your unique project.

The comments regarding my efforts with the autotrans show a lack of comprehension. The mods I am trialling at present, if successful, will be available to all  - if they are not successful no-one will have lost out but it looks as though some narrow-minded persons feel that warrants criticism. So be it - such comments don't worry me in the slightest. Like you, I enjoy the challenge and if it defeats me I shall try to find another way around it. 

Spec K

[Tim Radley 18]

Ok Nige, I'll bite why have you modded the trans tunnel but I'm also interested in why you've said that you don't think the car has enough caster, what is the stock caster angle and what angle would you want and why?

He has short arms like a t-rex and struggles to turn into corners

[KevinA 695]

I doubt it AJ. Believe it or not, I actually don't like Carbon. I think GRP will be fine, especially considering I will be cutting part of the arches out for tyre clearance!!

ANYONE can make ANYTHING if they apply themselves and don't get distracted. I was actually thinking of trailering in for it's 12 month service, just to keep the warranty up to date.

Kev, you're the guy who used to race Lancers yeah? If so, you're more than welcome..

sure did

[Guest]

sure did

You may get more than just one drive then Kev?? Every new build needs a good shakedown.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Nigelr32

[Guest]

Rather than point out my disabilities, I will answer Keiths question directly and professionally. now there's a first.

The tunnel is modified to accept the exhaust without making it the lowest part of the car. The stock exhaust runs along the tunnel next to the gearbox, but as the Samsonas is larger in diameter, and parallel, the exhaust has to go under and next to the gearbox. Adrian put up a pic of his exhaust on his thread for the Samsonas 'box. I will be moving my engine back by around 50 to 75mm,(still designing a crossmember), once I have the dry sump in my hands. As the 'box is parallel and the tunnel is tapered, I have cut the tunnel to make it parallel. I also plan to put a 2JZ in it when the little FA20 blows up.

The car has around 4.5 degrees of caster at stock ride height. This increases to around 6.5 degrees at -50mm ride height. I will be running something like -75mm ride height as I will be using a taller tyre, so the wheel centre effectively moves up for the same ride height.. I hope you understand? Because the strut length limits just how low the car can be I will be turreting the body to basically lower the body over the strut. When I do this I need to decide how much caster to add to what's already there. I'm leaning, (no pun intended), towards 1.5 degrees plus which will equate to a move back of around 8mm at the top. Increasing caster can make the car more stable and induce negative camber on the outside wheel when turning into a corner. Typically BMW's have a lot of caster, you'll notice this when they're parked up with the wheels steered in either direction. The inside wheel will have loads of positive camber and the outside will have loads of negative. So, with more caster you can run less negative camber, again increasing straight line stability and better tyre to asphalt contact area.

Here's a pic of an old 9 x 18 ET 35 wheel I found lying around, strapped up to represent -50mm ride height.

The tyre in this example is 629mm in diameter. I will be running tyres around 665mm diameter, and running at least 25mm lower than the next picture shows. The two pieces of wood holding up the original sheet metalwork are 25mm thick. So, you do the maths.. an 18mm taller tyre running 25mm lower would not have fitted into the stock  inner wheel-arch.

The roll cage will put the strength back into this area. I actually supported the strut tops with steel bars before cutting them about and took critical dimensions all around them. To my surprise, they didn't move even 1mm after the tubes were removed.

The next pics are just for fun. Now you can see how 245/35 x 18's will look on your car if you lower it 50mm.

Just one more thing.. ALL of the suspension pick up points will be moved to retain or improve roll centre / bump steer etc.

 

Edited October 18, 2015 by Nigelr32

[Guest]

come come, dry sumping isn't some dark art thats right at the bleeding edge

this build is a race car  and as such requires a dry sump, especially on a flat engine which are more prone than inline  or Vee configurations for oil hang up

as long as the tank volume is  a good size with baffling and the entry point is tangential so the oil can swirl around the tank and de-aerate and the blow-by air can also be vented to the air space at the top of the dry sump tank so there's no need for a seperate catch can

 

also the hoses shouldn't be running at 12Bar unless something is seriously wrong

typical back pressures on a well designed system should be about 0.3 to 0.5bar of back pressure to the dry sump pump, the engen pressure pump is unchanged of course so internal oil pressure remains the same as stock and is contained within the engine

 

Thankyou Sonic,

I think the little 3 gallon tank pictured here will suffice and fits exactly with your spec?

Just one point though.. I will be using a Peterson 3 stage pump which also includes the pressure pump, so the engines inbuilt pump will be redundant. I will be selling my Reimax pump, Racer X sump and baffle plate as soon as this kit arrives. So, as you say, there will be one -16 hose running inside the car under vacuum and another right next to it returning oil to the tank from the scavenge and cooler, hardly 12 bar me thinks?? BUT, I will have 15 litres of oil to burn me and cover the track when it all blows up!!

[Tareim 343]

a nice bit of technical info there which we don't normally get, interesting to see how you're changing things based on what is happening in other areas

[Tim Radley 18]

I measured my castor last night at this ride height and with the top mount moved back by 4mm it was 6.4 degrees. That was with 2 degrees negative camber