If Toyota did offer more power.......

[Sonic 4]

just to drag this back on topic....

 

I see the most popular poll is for 280Bhp but turbo charged? this doens't make sense to me as the superchargers out there are more than capable of making 280Bhp  without the attendent heat issues and the loss of the catylst  so making it harder to pass an MOT

 

if you want  much more power thatn 280Bhp then yes a turbo is a better option as it has more potential but below the 280-300Bhp I 'd say a supercharger is  a better option

 

your thoughts?

[Nicebiscuit 655]

just to drag this back on topic....

I see the most popular poll is for 280Bhp but turbo charged? this doens't make sense to me as the superchargers out there are more than capable of making 280Bhp without the attendent heat issues and the loss of the catylst so making it harder to pass an MOT

if you want much more power thatn 280Bhp then yes a turbo is a better option as it has more potential but below the 280-300Bhp I 'd say a supercharger is a better option

your thoughts?

Torque perhaps?

The Saab I ran until a few weeks ago was putting out 275bhp or thereabouts, but it was the fat wodge of torque that made it such a formidable A-road 3rd gear weapon.

[Keethos 842]

Even though the Sprintex can get 280bhp easy enough people like Rob are suffering from heat issues when used hard for too long like on trackdays. Think Turbo isn't as bad....but then again, maybe it's just down to more people used to and liking the feel of turbos over superchargers maybe?

[Lauren 2259]

I doubt anyone is going to be buyins the Sprintex setup tbh. It's water to air intercooler isn't up to the job and the power delivery is too torque rich at the bottom end runs out of steam at the top end. The HKS is much, much better. 

 

In terms of torque comparisons, I admit I do not like big wallops of torque in the mid range, I think it better to feed it in, so a supercharger like the HKS setup is preferable in respect of driveability and still has good mid range torque. These aren't diesel engines!

[GT86Jay 202]

I went for the HKS supercharger kit due to the fact it feels like the stock characteristics with just more power. 

 

No sudden power surges, no sudden torque leaps and it seems to produce good boost all the way from 3k to red line. It seems a stable road kit. I've had zero heat issues. (Not taken it on track yet, although Maz drives in TSS and doesn't see any problems).

 

IMO the HKS is the best 'Factory feel boost' solution if you just want a bit more. It handles well on my 225tyres so no need to go crazy tyres to handle the torque as it's fed in smoothly and progressively. 

 

Anyone is welcome to have a go in my car if they wish. Think of the HKS kit as just having a bigger displacement NA engine. 

[Keethos 842]

Does the Sprintex run out of steam at the top end? Aren't people who are doing the twin charged with the Avo and the Sprintex using the Sprintex for it's top end and the Avo for its low down performance? I originally thought it would have been the other way round but I'm sure I was mistaken in the end.

[GT86Jay 202]

Does the Sprintex run out of steam at the top end? Aren't people who are doing the twin charged with the Avo and the Sprintex using the Sprintex for it's top end and the Avo for its low down performance? I originally thought it would have been the other way round but I'm sure I was mistaken in the end.

 

The couple of times i've been in Sprintex it does seem to give you all the Torque low to mid. The HKS blower is far better at giving you more higher up. I've seen a dyno sheet comparing the two and its quite noticeable. Usually twin charging you use the supercharger low end to fill in the gap that Turbo lag gives you. Then let the Turbo take you from there once it's spooled up.

 

If people are using Turbo first then Sprintex for high end something is wrong... 

[Tim Radley 18]

The couple of times i've been in Sprintex it does seem to give you all the Torque low to mid. The HKS blower is far better at giving you more higher up. I've seen a dyno sheet comparing the two and its quite noticeable. Usually twin charging you use the supercharger low end to fill in the gap that Turbo lag gives you. Then let the Turbo take you from there once it's spooled up.

 

If people are using Turbo first then Sprintex for high end something is wrong... 

Twincharge doesn't really work like that.  You don't run two seperate unconnected entities, they both run at the same time.  If you feed the supercharger from the turbo then the supercharger pulls the turbo up to speed faster effectively reducing it's lag.

[GT86Jay 202]

Twincharge doesn't really work like that.  You don't run two seperate unconnected entities, they both run at the same time.  If you feed the supercharger from the turbo then the supercharger pulls the turbo up to speed faster effectively reducing it's lag.

 

I was replying to Keith's Comment where he was saying people use the supercharger at the top end. Which isn't the case. 

 

I've never ever seen a supercharger used in a twincharge setup to fill in boost at the top where a Turbo can't handle it. IMO the supercharger is used in the lower - mid range. Like you say. To fill in and reduce lag. 

[Guest]

Exactly Jay, in my opinion twin charging allows a bigger turbo to be used without the lag that goes along with it.

I'm going for it on my car then if it doesn't work I'll have Turbo in one and a SC in the other. Any PD supercharger is a multiplier. I fear it may become a restriction to the turbo, but having spoken to Matt from Cosworth, we may be ok with a bigger throttle body???

[Ade 517]

I wonder if that is 350matt that seems to be involved in anything Cosworth on the forums? He's gone quiet recently though which is a shame.

[Keethos 842]

Well that's what I thought as well Jay, that a supercharger for low down gain and Turbo for the top end but I'm sure I've heard and read that it's the other way round for the Sprintex and Avo as I believe the Avo turbo is considered as a small turbo? Is that right?

[Lauren 2259]

That can't be right Keith, as it makes no sense. 

[Tim Radley 18]

Well that's what I thought as well Jay, that a supercharger for low down gain and Turbo for the top end but I'm sure I've heard and read that it's the other way round for the Sprintex and Avo as I believe the Avo turbo is considered as a small turbo? Is that right?

Normally you would want a big turbo with twin charge or you run the risk of overspeeding a small turbo if the supercharger can keep running like your description.

[Sonic 4]

Agreed,  use a PD blower after a large turbo  to pull through the turbo and multiply the boost  when the turbo comes on song for this t

 

for this to work though you'll need a really good intercooler setup for the SC as it'll be seeing hot air from the turbo when that comes on boost

 

that is unless you run another intercooler for the turbo

 

ie ; air comes into turbo - out to intercooler - into throttle then into SC - out through that intercooler - into engine

You'd certainly want a water air setup for the SC at least to keep the air path short and so avoid lots of pipework

 

I look forward to seeing this , with a built bottom end and a GT30 or similar turbo you'd get about 500 bhp and with no lag

[Guest]

Yep, I have a built and balanced bottom end and a GTX 3071 on JDL pipe work. I think it'll work very well. As Adrian says, im an Engineer, and I'm only doing it because.........

[Tim Radley 18]

Agreed,  use a PD blower after a large turbo  to pull through the turbo and multiply the boost  when the turbo comes on song for this t

 

for this to work though you'll need a really good intercooler setup for the SC as it'll be seeing hot air from the turbo when that comes on boost

 

that is unless you run another intercooler for the turbo

 

ie ; air comes into turbo - out to intercooler - into throttle then into SC - out through that intercooler - into engine

You'd certainly want a water air setup for the SC at least to keep the air path short and so avoid lots of pipework

 

I look forward to seeing this , with a built bottom end and a GT30 or similar turbo you'd get about 500 bhp and with no lag

You have to run two intercoolers or temps get really out of hand which is a problem for supercharger lifespan.  I've a customer running a Harrop with a very large GTX which is also the same setup Norris Designs have just come up with for the EVO.  It's very pricey though and you have to get the boost control and plumbing right or the supercharger will eat itself.

[Tim Radley 18]

Yep, I have a built and balanced bottom end and a GTX 3071 on JDL pipe work. I think it'll work very well. As Adrian says, im an Engineer, and I'm only doing it because.........

You twin charging yours now?  I'd consider changing for a much bigger turbo though, that 71 housing will create a lot of back pressure.  Maybe consider a 3586HTA instead with something like a Harrop 1320

[Sonic 4]

I don't think the harrop kit is available yet though?

maybe the cosworth kit to go with that turbo ?

 

I look forward to seeing how it turns out

[Tim Radley 18]

I don't think the harrop kit is available yet though?

maybe the cosworth kit to go with that turbo ?

 

I look forward to seeing how it turns out

You can make your own kit just order the appropriate nose from Harrop.  Or wait until they do one.

[Sonic 4]

thats a fair bit of work , as you would have to develop a manifold, intercoolers, pipework etc etc

 

why not use a Cosworth kit that already has this developed that you can just bolt on?

The cores are already sized for 400Bhp for the high boost version they're supposed to be releasing

what would you have to change anyway?

the intake pipe would need a bit of reworking but I think thats it in terms of major plumbing

[Guest]

thats a fair bit of work , as you would have to develop a manifold, intercoolers, pipework etc etc

 

why not use a Cosworth kit that already has this developed that you can just bolt on?

The cores are already sized for 400Bhp for the high boost version they're supposed to be releasing

what would you have to change anyway?

the intake pipe would need a bit of reworking but I think thats it in terms of major plumbing

This is exactly what I'll be doing.

[Sonic 4]

Cool!

how far along are you with the project ?

 

is the turbo / sc already fitted?