Guest Report post Posted October 22, 2014 Evening all, me again... I'm looking at building a new bumper reinforcement bracket assembly, a bit like the beatrush example, but stronger. I have a couple of questions which are puzzling me.. I know my warranty will be voided, but thats not an issue. I am concerned about the insurance implications though. I wonder how i would describe the mod? Would anyone want to insure me? Also, with the plan of fitting a SC or Turbo some time down the line, i wonder about the routing of the intercooler pipework? One thing's for sure, i'll have a bigger gaping hole to fill with a large intercooler!! Any thoughts anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
will300 812 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 This might help: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29807 Direct link: http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/Drift-Armor-Drift-Bar-for-the-Scion-FRS.html More pictures: http://driftarmor.com/Scion_FRS_Drift_Bar.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 Is your car going to be keep as a road car, or purely out and out track car? The design of the modern car structure is very complicated (I know, I used to be a body development engineer for Toyota) - removing the standard front (or rear) bumper beam will have an adverse effect to the structural, and impact crumple performance of the car. I do not believe any insurance company will cover it, unless you can prove that the impact performance has not been affected. As far as warranty is concerned - read the wording of the warranty cover. It covers you against latent defects, or premature failure. Not sure what aspect of the warranty cover would be affected by removing the bumper bar (apart from if you had to make a claim for structural failure of the car). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 A stronger item would be useful but if you rearended someone what could be the result of any insurance claims? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for your comments guys. I really appreciate what you are saying, and agree with all points raised. The standard front bar was probably designed before the front bumper for the Toyota. There's a lot of room above it, but they placed it in a position that blocks the upper quarter of the air inlet. I disagree with all the talk on the American forum where they talk about pedestrian safety, I believe that if a pedestrian is hit hard enough that the beam comes into play, they will probably be dead or very seriously injured anyway. The beam has a piece of foam sat on it, which is a good 2 inches from the bumper internally, this is there for low speed collisions I believe. I think a stronger beam would aid front end rigidity, but would be detrimental in a medium speed impact? Perhaps the stock bumper is designed to absorb some of the impact, whereas a rigid tubular assembly may cause damage to the shell further down the line?? If you look at the Crawford kit images online, you'll see that they do away with the part completely and replace it with... nothing!! I'm still between a rock and a hard place with this.. a lowered car puts the beam in a position it was never intended to work at in a collision, so what can the harm be in moving it up? the stock beam is a rough, fabricated assembly with lots of sharp edges and holes. A 2" piece of tubing would be smoother, and surely less damaging to other property if exposed? I think I'll sleep on it?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kodename47 446 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Just work around it, everyone who's FI here still has the stock one in place. Why risk it?Why keep mentioning the warranty? You know as well as we do that it only affects parts that you change... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 To understand the functionality of the stock bumper beam, you have to look at in relation to the front side members of the car. The plastic cover is very much that - a cover. Obviously it, together with the moulted foam piece between it and the bumper bar itself will absorb low speed impact, being semi flexible. Pedestrian safety is a function of the profile and 'no sharp edges' of the vehicle front (although I believe NCAP also now specifies minimum height requirements of the front of the vehicle?). Again, the structure of all modern cars is designed to crumple in a controlled way on impact - that is the reason for the indentations etc, these provide fold points. A different front beam, either shape or relative height, will have an effect on the controlled crumple (read energy absorption) properties of the vehicle in the event of a frontal impact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Special K 442 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Nigel - I applaud your efforts to date but is this a wise move? As no-one who has gone f/I in the UK has, to my knowledge, found it necessary to change the front bumper beam to make room for an intercooler etc. (that includes Adrian with the GT86R) do you feel that this is necessary? There is adequate space in the existing void for water rad, intercooler and oil cooler... and 25mm lowering does not change that. Hence the need to carry out this modification is not proven. As Dave says - you are changing a fundamental 'crash/rigidity' structure on the car. Surely the most important factor is that you will compromise your insurance? In the event of damage to a pedestrian or other road user, whether your fault or not, you risk a prosecution (no insurance) and personal liability. A step too far...? Spec K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Ok guys. You win this time, you're right. I guess if this was a track only build I would go for it, but as you all say, Sod's law dictates that I WILL have an accident and I will be liable. I think I'll just paint the stock part Matt black so it can't be seen. I really want to go for the gaping hole in the nose, without the blanked out part at the top of the grille. Thanks for your words of wisdom guys, as I said, you win this time!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 As for mentioning Warranty, I am so used to hearing people talk about it on another site, I assume that is what everyone else is thinking all the time. Sorry. BTW I called Mark at Abbey yesterday about this subject, the first words he said were. " You'll void your warranty"! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Nigel - I applaud your efforts to date but is this a wise move? As no-one who has gone f/I in the UK has, to my knowledge, found it necessary to change the front bumper beam to make room for an intercooler etc. (that includes Adrian with the GT86R) do you feel that this is necessary? There is adequate space in the existing void for water rad, intercooler and oil cooler... and 25mm lowering does not change that. Hence the need to carry out this modification is not proven. As Dave says - you are changing a fundamental 'crash/rigidity' structure on the car. Surely the most important factor is that you will compromise your insurance? In the event of damage to a pedestrian or other road user, whether your fault or not, you risk a prosecution (no insurance) and personal liability. A step too far...? Spec K Just one point... Adrian has actually modified this area of his car to improve airflow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Yeah, Ian has also done the same but that's just cutting 2 slots into the plastic bumper with a mesh behind it, nothing to the reinforcement bit I don't believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 As for mentioning Warranty, I am so used to hearing people talk about it on another site, I assume that is what everyone else is thinking all the time.Sorry.BTW I called Mark at Abbey yesterday about this subject, the first words he said were. " You'll void your warranty"!I do all the time but it seems to vary dealer to dealer and how much they are prepared to help you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 No, Adrian has actually replaced the beam with an ali beam from an IS200, then cut it about to increase airflow. http://www.fensport.co.uk/FensportCars/GT86_Race.aspx I have just spoken to Sky Insurance, they have said they will "look at it" as I have a very clean driving history with some very powerful cars under my belt and not a single claim. They are fully aware of what a Drifting bar is, and are currently covering cars with them if they cover the cars on their site?? I am currently popping in and out of wanting to do this or not?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Ah I did not know that, my bad! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Possibly a short victory When people make blanket statements about voiding warranty, I find it very amusing. As I posted earlier, a manufacturers warranty is there to protect you against latent defects in (part) manufacture / assembly faults. It is very clearly defined on page 4 to 9 of the Service & Warranty booklet provided with your car. I have spent 28 years working for OEMs (including 24 years for Toyota), and have had direct responsibility for warranty management within this period, so I am not making assumptions, as others obviously are. (We all know that the word assume is an acronym for making an ass (of) u (and) me.) My concern with your proposal is purely based on the safety / liability basis. Adrian's car is an all out race car, so what he has done to it bears no relevance to everyday street use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks for your valued opinion there Pitman. I actually didnt realise we live so close to each other!! If I do this at all i will use 45mm x 3mm seamless tubing, bent to suit the shape of the nosecone.so the strength of the front end will probably increase, but having said that, a frontal impact will probably cause worse damage to the rails? I have mocked up something for the insurance company to look at, lets see what they have to say?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I work / live in Lydney during the week, family home is in Droitwich. We will have to arrange for a get together sometime Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I want in on this meet too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Yay.. more the merrier!! I promise not to bore you both with my tales of how I want to change every single part of my car.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keethos 842 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Lol, the more tales the merrier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 So, when and where? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Your call guys, I'll be there. This weekend?? Somewhere closer to you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pitman 188 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I am actually staying down in Lydney this weekend, so anywhere in this area is good for me - got some CF moulds to make, as well as prep some body kit parts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted October 23, 2014 This is how the front looks when theres no Toyota brace in there... my brace is actually in there in this shot.You can just see it through the license plate mounting holes.With the bumper cover removed...As I mentioned earlier, this is a mock up, sat on axle stands just to give the insurance people an idea of what I may want to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
