Voodoo 13 LCA's

[Deacon 1357]

For about 4 years now I've used Whiteline camber adjustable rear bushes to get the camber I wanted at the rear (about -2°)and they've been really good as they've basically been fit and forget.

I have kept my eye on LCA's though as they are obviously much easier should you wish to make any adjustments. I knew if I was going to get some I wanted some with the same quality materials used in the likes of the SPL or Velox ones but,  as the bushes were doing the job for me,  it wasn't something I was in a rush for.

While doing some research I came across the Voodoo 13 LCA's. These use the same quality billet aluminium and fittings as SPL and Velox, have the necessary fitting for the headlight adjuster and have three positions for attaching the arb and damper allowing you to effectively increase or decrease the arb rate and the motion ratio for the suspension so effectively allowing you to stiffen or soften the damper. 

The thing that really caught my eye with the Voodoo 13's is that the design incorporates 18mm of lowering. This means I can raise my suspension back up by 18mm while still keeping the ride height I currently run. This will allow me to regain some of the travel I have lost through lowering on the rear dampers. I spoke to Moton about this and they agreed it would be beneficial to the ride quality and bump absorption. 

The stumbling block was that Voodoo 13 are a US company and so by the time I'd added in shipping costs, VAT and import duty the costs became excessive so I gave up on that idea. 

A few weeks later though I saw that Amber Performance were now stocking the Voodoo 13 stuff so a few messages later with @James@Amber and a set were ordered which arrived today and should hopefully be being fitted in the second week of April when the cars having its alignment and corner weighting done. A few pictures below:-

They're a lovely looking thing in person and almost seem too nice to hide away under the car! 

[Minion 132]

I'm looking at getting myself a set of LCA'S in the near future and have looked at just about every option going. I was looking at the likes of cusco as they look a quality part whilst being about £100 or so cheaper than the Voodoo 13 ones although I have been told not to bother with rose joints due to the Uk having so much road salt through the winter months that will end up just eating away at them. Think I'm fairly decided on the whiteline ones where you can fit and forget and should last a good few years even thought they don't have the adjustabilty of others, I will be keeping an eye out to see how you get on with these though 

[Deacon 1357]

@Minion it's a good point about the spherical bearings. I have them on my suspension and haven't had any issues so far so fingers crossed they'll be OK on these too. The Voodoo 13 spherical rod ends are also self-sealing and self lubricated because of the nylon/ptfe injection moulded race (apparently) that is supposed to keep out dirt and debris so hopefully that will help too. I haven't seen any problems reported by those running the SPL arms either so I'm taking that as a good sign! 😁

[Minion 132]

That's good to hear then, I thought about it a bit more last night and for me I think the whiteline ones will be perfect. I just want something to add a small amount of camber to the rear and that's it. It's a 90% road car with the idea of tracking it every couple of months or so.

Seeing as they are half the price and should in theory have a longer life it seems silly not to, although they do not look anywhere near as good as the gorgeous Voodoo 13 one's 

[Deacon 1357]

17 minutes ago, Minion said:

That's good to hear then, I thought about it a bit more last night and for me I think the whiteline ones will be perfect. I just want something to add a small amount of camber to the rear and that's it. It's a 90% road car with the idea of tracking it every couple of months or so.

Seeing as they are half the price and should in theory have a longer life it seems silly not to, although they do not look anywhere near as good as the gorgeous Voodoo 13 one's 

Have you considered just going with the Whiteline camber bushes? I've used them in a very similar way to how you have said you'll be and have had no problems at all for the 4 years they've been on. Once the camber is set on them they really do seem to be fit and forget. They're cheaper to buy but a little more expensive to fit but they do have the added benefit of taking a bit of slop out of the rear due to replacing the bushing. 

[Minion 132]

Just been looking at those but they seem to only offer +/- 0.75 degree of camber  . I would really be wanting a bit more than that and would like the option to add more if I needed it rather than buy a whole new item, Just seen as well the whiteline stuff seems to have a lifetime guarantee as well which is another bonus.

I'm not in any rush to get anything but will get them soon just to get it a bit more dialled up and then hopefully get it corner weighted and she should be about right

[Church 209]

Whiteline camber bushes also can be used to change camber rear .. but lesser range, longer shop work to install/adjust them (=cost savings on cheaper bushings vs that of LCAs goes down the drain on longer/more expensive work) which also would be similar PITA if needed to readjust later.

I'd say to just go for LCAs right away. SPC/Eibach/Whiteline are cheap enough to not skimp on them.

Bushings (not whiteline for that particular, but powerflex's) where only way to get needed camber for me for front though (if i wanted to keep camberbolts only, without pillowball camberplates).

[DanJ 374]

It's worth having a look to see if you can get rubber gaiters for the sphericals. I know they're available for common rod end sizes, not looked for these larger sphericals.

The LCAs do look like a nice bit of kit :-)

[Mike 458]

1 hour ago, Minion said:

Just been looking at those but they seem to only offer +/- 0.75 degree of camber  .

That's adjustment. I've got -2 degrees on the rear with the bushes. Depending on how low you go and what camber you want, the adjustment amount might be fine.

[Deacon 1357]

17 minutes ago, DanJ said:

It's worth having a look to see if you can get rubber gaiters for the sphericals. I know they're available for common rod end sizes, not looked for these larger sphericals.

The LCAs do look like a nice bit of kit :-)

Cheers @DanJ - I didn't know such things existed so I'll try and have a look and see if I can find any 👍

[Deacon 1357]

8 minutes ago, Mike said:

That's adjustment. I've got -2 degrees on the rear with the bushes. Depending on how low you go and what camber you want, the adjustment amount might be fine.

Same for me. The bushes basically just allowed me to even the two sides up. 

[Minion 132]

Well that's made me unsure again lol

Is there any gain of having a full LCA over one of those bushes? Or just much easier to fit?

[Deacon 1357]

10 minutes ago, Minion said:

Well that's made me unsure again lol

Is there any gain of having a full LCA over one of those bushes? Or just much easier to fit?

From the research I've done (but I'm happy to be corrected) the pros of the arms are that they are easy to fit, easy to adjust and have a larger range of adjustment if you're intending to slam it. The cons are cost and I have read a few suggestions that the alignment needs doing more often as the bolts for setting it get loosened by road vibrations, etc. 

The pros of the bushes are they're cheaper to buy, remove some slop from the standard bushes and are basically fit and forget as I haven't seen anyone posting that they've come loose and lost the alignment. The cons are they're more difficult to fit, more difficult to set initially (make sure you get ones like the Whiteline ones which are adjusted on the car) and don't give the same range of adjustment you'd need if you were to slam the car. 

To be honest I think both are a good solution and if your looking at something like the Eibach/Whiteline arms the costs probably end up quite similar overall including fitting.

Only the increased travel these arms give has made me purchase a set as the bushes have been fine for my needs. 

[Church 209]

Minion: bushes are more like for set it once, LCAs - more for if one realigns more frequent or does it by himself. I guess, if you thought of adjusting camber on car then it might be 1) if you only daily drive, but have lowered or installed much wider wheels, so to get alignment back to stock or for better wheel/tire non rubbing clearance you may need to adjust alignment once. For this bushes might do aswell; 2) if you do it performance purpose such as for more grip on track or for changed front-rear grip bias, then you may by time change on what alignment you may wish .. or install other suspension parts (eg. coilovers) later on, and thus having to redo alignment .. thus - 'multiple times', and i wouldn't wish to have to deal with PITA of adjusting via bushings, rather have LCAs from beginning. For example i need my summer "track" alignment dialed in spring, and in autumn - "winter alignment", with less camber, thus two alignments per year. Some even more track oriented track junkies may adjust it even more often (eg. depending on tire / depending on track specifics / if track day or racing is in dry or wet). Simpler to pay extra $100-150 for LCAs over bushings initially. If money/budget is that keeps it from, then one can get stock alike Whiteline/SPC/Eibach ones, not more expensive ones like eg. these Voodoo 13.

[surrey86 352]

4 hours ago, Minion said:

Just been looking at those but they seem to only offer +/- 0.75 degree of camber  . I would really be wanting a bit more than that and would like the option to add more if I needed it rather than buy a whole new item, Just seen as well the whiteline stuff seems to have a lifetime guarantee as well which is another bonus.

I'm not in any rush to get anything but will get them soon just to get it a bit more dialled up and then hopefully get it corner weighted and she should be about right

Most people get these primarily to reduce camber, (especially if doing track work) and secondly even up both sides.

These cars gain rear camber with any sort of lowering. 10mm lower on mine has got the rear to -2 degrees.. with stock arms and bushes.

[Lauren 2259]

They look like a really nice bit of kit, much like the SPL ones I have which have all the adjustments you mention and two levels of it, which may compensate for lowering, thinking about it. Be interesting to see how you find it. The difference I felt was slightly interfered with by having the whole car poly bushed at the same time, though I can report that the rear end is very sharp indeed with no slop. Getting into Richard's 2017 demonstrator his car with 5K miles on the clock feels a lot less sharp than my car did in comparison.

[Deacon 1357]

8 minutes ago, Lauren said:

They look like a really nice bit of kit, much like the SPL ones I have which have all the adjustments you mention and two levels of it, which may compensate for lowering, thinking about it. Be interesting to see how you find it. The difference I felt was slightly interfered with by having the whole car poly bushed at the same time, though I can report that the rear end is very sharp indeed with no slop. Getting into Richard's 2017 demonstrator his car with 5K miles on the clock feels a lot less sharp than my car did in comparison.

The spl's don't have the lowering built in unfortunately. The adjustments on the SPL are for altering the damper mounting point and so motion ratio and for the arb mounting point allowing it to be made effectively softer or stiffer. The Voodoo 13's have this too but also the Voodoo 13's 'body' is shaped differently to the SPL arms which is what gives the lowering. 

[Church 209]

Regarding pillow ball mounts one should be careful. In some classes those might be not allowed and also are not MOT-legal at least in my country. Thus i more then welcome if there is at least choice (for example like for Velox LCAs, that can be ordered with auto-x STX compatible or pillowball mounts) and hate when there isn't, like eg. all aftermarket camberplates being with pillowball only. Less slack is good for handling, but pillowballs also last worse in salty winter environment and reduce compliancy/increase NVH, especially if each and every mount is replaced with those.

[Lauren 2259]

1 minute ago, Church said:

Regarding pillow ball mounts one should be careful. In some classes those might be not allowed and also are not MOT-legal at least in my country. Thus i more then welcome if there is at least choice (and hate when there isn't, like all aftermarket camberplates being with pillowball only). Less slack is good for handling, but pillowballs also last worse in salty winter environment and reduce compliancy/increase NVH.

It's not a problem in the UK where I live, which is obviously all I'm worried about. I've not noticed any difference with NVH with these arms fitted at all. Though it was noisy enough anyway before. I think the biggest increase was from the pillowball mounts on the front coilovers. My SPL arms have been through a winter, will have to see how they go in terms of wear on the rose joints.

[Church 209]

Lauren: front camberplates NVH wise were THE issue for daily driving over bad roads for me too. But i guess if one goes all the way with replacing all the bushings, then imho it should be possible to feel by anybody. After all, vibration/noise and alike is passed further, to eg. body when all bushings are pillowball, where as if just one, then it might "stop" at next still more compliant bushing. For example LCAs with PB .. now add also solid subframe bushings, and then probably cummulative NVH change will be more noticeable. Or with transmision/diff mounts and one piece axle .. with not all of them done noise increase might be reasonable, but change all of them?

[Deacon 1357]

8 minutes ago, Church said:

Lauren: front camberplates NVH wise were THE issue for daily driving over bad roads for me too. But i guess if one goes all the way with replacing all the bushings, then imho it should be possible to feel by anybody. After all, vibration/noise and alike is passed further, to eg. body when all bushings are pillowball, where as if just one, then it might "stop" at next still more compliant bushing. For example LCAs with PB .. now add also solid subframe bushings, and then probably cummulative NVH change will be more noticeable. Or with transmision/diff mounts and one piece axle .. with not all of them done noise increase might be reasonable, but change all of them?

If you're going to change bushings, etc to this extent then I doubt a little extra NVH is a major concern. It's hardly as though the 86 is the last word in refinement anyway is it 😂

[Lauren 2259]

5 hours ago, Church said:

Lauren: front camberplates NVH wise were THE issue for daily driving over bad roads for me too. But i guess if one goes all the way with replacing all the bushings, then imho it should be possible to feel by anybody. After all, vibration/noise and alike is passed further, to eg. body when all bushings are pillowball, where as if just one, then it might "stop" at next still more compliant bushing. For example LCAs with PB .. now add also solid subframe bushings, and then probably cummulative NVH change will be more noticeable. Or with transmision/diff mounts and one piece axle .. with not all of them done noise increase might be reasonable, but change all of them?

I suppose what I'm saying is that with coilovers, with pillowball top mounts and solid mounts on the rear, rose jointed SPL lower arms and polybushes throughout, the car is fine as a daily driver. I've done 111K miles in it after all. I didn't notice an increase in noise or vibrations etc as such after fitting the SPL lower arms and polybushes at 100K miles. 

[Church 209]

Lauren: from my experience i hadn't seen issues on good roads or track as daily either.

But .. not all roads are good here, many new roadholes opened when snow/ice thawed off, and then there were some road defects/uneventies particularly bad .. also maybe it's because stock shocks/springs working bad with camberplates and aftermarket maybe less suffering from that .. but result was as it was. NVH from loud/harsh hits on those defects worsened to extent it made driving unpleasant. I couldn't just drive as i used to .. and was completely OK with rubber topmounts.

That's why i posted in previous post .. i love if there is choice, and hate if there isn't. To each his own preferences, tolerances, wishes, each is driving on local to him roads in whatever state they are. For me NVH of camberplates was unbearable. Maybe it may have been worked better with different shocks .. but now i don't want to risk and considering for future only ones that can be used with rubber topmounts (eg. KW/Ohlin/Bilstein/Koni, leaning more to B6). Funny that with pillowball camberplates ARE MOT-legal here (probably because many aftermarket coilovers have them in kit), but they seem exactly ones i don't want according past experience, but PBs elsewhere - MOT fail :/