Cosworth stage 1 upgrade

[Bonjy01 0]

I have had my wonderful gt86 aero since February I brought her brand new since I've had her I have invested in a milltek full non resonated exhaust system and put a k&n air box filter in her I've heard that cosworth do a upgrade stage one prior to supercharging which includes map thermostat, filter can I use this off of my existing filter/ exhaust also where do I go next with the mods guys 

any suggestions will be appreciated

[Paul 442]

Is supercharging your eventual plan? If so, tbh you'd be better off saving up straight for the supercharger if it's sheer performance you're after.

[Ade 517]

23 minutes ago, Paul said:

Is supercharging your eventual plan? If so, tbh you'd be better off saving up straight for the supercharger if it's sheer performance you're after.

This ^^ the stage 2 supercharger kit now comes with the thermostat and air filter so all you would need is a licence to run the calibration. 

If you don't plan to supercharge the stage 1.1 works well with almost any cat back so would work with the Miltek. The air filters are slightly different and our MAFs are quite sensitiive being close to the air filter, so best to use a cosworth one. 

[Foulsmell 120]

Or just get a remap at the likes of Tuning Developments, Fensport etc.

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[Bonjy01 0]

14 hours ago, Paul said:

Is supercharging your eventual plan? If so, tbh you'd be better off saving up straight for the supercharger if it's sheer performance you're after.

I am a bit weary about doing the supercharger as don't want to harm the engine but a bit more power would go nicely if I am honest

[Bonjy01 0]

13 hours ago, Foulsmell said:

Or just get a remap at the likes of Tuning Developments, Fensport etc.

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Thanks bud much appreciated what sort of map is the best rolling road ? 

[Paul 442]

47 minutes ago, Bonjy01 said:

Thanks bud much appreciated what sort of map is the best rolling road ? 

It's open for debate. Generally-speaking rolling road dynos will squeeze a bit more power at the top end than a road map, the road map is usually slightly more conservative but is actually mapped specifically to how the car reacts in real world situations. With an N/A car, unless you're modifying pretty much everything without going N/A, 99% of the time you won;t be able to tell the difference. It may depend on which tuner you are closest to, we generally recommend Fensport in Cambridgshire, Tuning Developments up North and Abbey Motorsport in Oxted (Surrey).

If you don;t want to go the Forced Induction route the most cost-effective gains can be had by changing the stock manifold and exhaust system, swapping out the panel filter and then having the car remapped. There are solutions to every budget, it comes down to how much you want to spend and what noise you want it to make.

As for how the car will feel, with a new exhaust system (including manifold) and a remap the car will feel a bit more powerful and you'll notice more grunt low-down, but you won;t suddenly start catching M3's or 3litre cars. The weight of the car and the low-seating position does mean it feels like it's quick but the car is not quick in a straight line. If putting the pedal to the metal and feeling acceleration forces on straight roads is what you're after, you're better to go straight down the forced induction route IMHO.

 

[Bonjy01 0]

7 hours ago, Paul said:

It's open for debate. Generally-speaking rolling road dynos will squeeze a bit more power at the top end than a road map, the road map is usually slightly more conservative but is actually mapped specifically to how the car reacts in real world situations. With an N/A car, unless you're modifying pretty much everything without going N/A, 99% of the time you won;t be able to tell the difference. It may depend on which tuner you are closest to, we generally recommend Fensport in Cambridgshire, Tuning Developments up North and Abbey Motorsport in Oxted (Surrey).

If you don;t want to go the Forced Induction route the most cost-effective gains can be had by changing the stock manifold and exhaust system, swapping out the panel filter and then having the car remapped. There are solutions to every budget, it comes down to how much you want to spend and what noise you want it to make.

As for how the car will feel, with a new exhaust system (including manifold) and a remap the car will feel a bit more powerful and you'll notice more grunt low-down, but you won;t suddenly start catching M3's or 3litre cars. The weight of the car and the low-seating position does mean it feels like it's quick but the car is not quick in a straight line. If putting the pedal to the metal and feeling acceleration forces on straight roads is what you're after, you're better to go straight down the forced induction route IMHO.

 

Ok Paul many thanks there is a guy down this end called radical remaps he mapped my transit custom and what a difference that made he did say he could probably gain 10% on the power but said the car would feel a lot smother to drive 

 

if I did go down the forced induction route   What would be the best way to go ? Cosworth or hks 

thanks for being so helpful cheers bud

[Paul 442]

7 minutes ago, Bonjy01 said:

Ok Paul many thanks there is a guy down this end called radical remaps he mapped my transit custom and what a difference that made he did say he could probably gain 10% on the power but said the car would feel a lot smother to drive 

 

if I did go down the forced induction route   What would be the best way to go ? Cosworth or hks 

thanks for being so helpful cheers bud

IMHO this car is very different from a transit and you'd definitely get a better overall result with a remap from one of the GT86 specialists in the UK. To get 10% increase you'd need to replace the manifold, front pipe and catback exhaust, panel filter and have a remap. The car will then make somewhere between 205-215BHP (usually around 185BHP as standard).

Everyone has their opinions, if you fancy a turbo then Tuning Developments are getting very good figures and they offer an upgrade path using their own manifolds so you can modify some way now and it's not wasted money when you decide to throw the turbo in. However there are only a couple of TD turbo's cars, whereas Fensport have fitted over 70 AVO turbo kits and is generally seen as the "bulletproof" option.

In terms of a supercharger, a lot of money and time went into the development of the Cosworth and it performs strongly, especially now that it's price (which used to be quite a premium over some other kits) is now much more reasonable when compared with the competition. The Sprintex is the oldest and cheapest kit, it's performance is decent but it has overheating issues on track. The Harrop kit sold by Abbey performs really well and can be self-fitted by anyone decent with a spanner, but just went up in price. The HKS kit is a strong track-focused supercharger but is also getting on a bit now and, from an objective standpoint, has eaten a couple of FA20 motors.

Best advice, get yourself to a meet or trackday, and have a passenger ride in different cars with different FI kits. They all offer the best return-on-investment for those looking for more power they just sound/perform slightly different in different situations.

(All the above was totally objective, if I was spending money on a supercharger kit with current prices I'd choose the Cosworth.)

[Kodename47 446]

8 hours ago, Paul said:

It's open for debate. Generally-speaking rolling road dynos will squeeze a bit more power at the top end than a road map, the road map is usually slightly more conservative but is actually mapped specifically to how the car reacts in real world situations. 

That's rhetoric used by people who don't use a dyno....And not all dynos are rolling roads  Last time I heard that was from Litchfield, who then installed a dyno a year later.

51 minutes ago, Paul said:

In terms of a supercharger, a lot of money and time went into the development of the Cosworth and it performs strongly, especially now that it's price (which used to be quite a premium over some other kits) is now much more reasonable when compared with the competition. The Sprintex is the oldest and cheapest kit, it's performance is decent but it has overheating issues on track. The Harrop kit sold by Abbey performs really well and can be self-fitted by anyone decent with a spanner, but just went up in price. The HKS kit is a strong track-focused supercharger but is also getting on a bit now and, from an objective standpoint, has eaten a couple of FA20 motors.

Be careful with this statement. Sprintex cars do not overheat, the charge temps get hotter. People run them on track without issue. Also the HKS ones that have blown engines have been de-restricted and possibly not tuned right (as you can't rule that out), it's highly unlikely that a bone stock V2 would eat an engine and is still a well sorted kit.

[Foulsmell 120]

Here is my dyno sheet from TDev. Full Milltek exhaust with 2nd cat delete and K&N panel filter. Gives you an idea.

As said before stock power reads around 185-190.

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[long-gone 152]

That's quite impressive. I have their UEL headers, AVO cat-back and cosworth panel filter and recorded 205BHP.

[S18 RSG 429]

1 hour ago, LordGrover said:

That's quite impressive. I have their UEL headers, AVO cat-back and cosworth panel filter and recorded 205BHP.

Stock secondary cat kills a lot of power. best idea would be getting that replaced.

[Foulsmell 120]

1 hour ago, LordGrover said: That's quite impressive. I have their UEL headers, AVO cat-back and cosworth panel filter and recorded 205BHP.

Stock secondary cat kills a lot of power. best idea would be getting that replaced.

+1. Get a delete pipe then have it mapped again. One map for complete decat and one with 2nd cat for MOT.

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[Bonjy01 0]

16 hours ago, Paul said:

IMHO this car is very different from a transit and you'd definitely get a better overall result with a remap from one of the GT86 specialists in the UK. To get 10% increase you'd need to replace the manifold, front pipe and catback exhaust, panel filter and have a remap. The car will then make somewhere between 205-215BHP (usually around 185BHP as standard).

Everyone has their opinions, if you fancy a turbo then Tuning Developments are getting very good figures and they offer an upgrade path using their own manifolds so you can modify some way now and it's not wasted money when you decide to throw the turbo in. However there are only a couple of TD turbo's cars, whereas Fensport have fitted over 70 AVO turbo kits and is generally seen as the "bulletproof" option.

In terms of a supercharger, a lot of money and time went into the development of the Cosworth and it performs strongly, especially now that it's price (which used to be quite a premium over some other kits) is now much more reasonable when compared with the competition. The Sprintex is the oldest and cheapest kit, it's performance is decent but it has overheating issues on track. The Harrop kit sold by Abbey performs really well and can be self-fitted by anyone decent with a spanner, but just went up in price. The HKS kit is a strong track-focused supercharger but is also getting on a bit now and, from an objective standpoint, has eaten a couple of FA20 motors.

Best advice, get yourself to a meet or trackday, and have a passenger ride in different cars with different FI kits. They all offer the best return-on-investment for those looking for more power they just sound/perform slightly different in different situations.

(All the above was totally objective, if I was spending money on a supercharger kit with current prices I'd choose the Cosworth.)

Do you have any idea when the next meet is as I would love to tag along on one of these as it would help with my decision 

you have been very informative and helpful 

many thanks

ben

[Bonjy01 0]

11 hours ago, Foulsmell said:

Here is my dyno sheet from TDev. Full Milltek exhaust with 2nd cat delete and K&N panel filter. Gives you an idea.

As said before stock power reads around 185-190.

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That's the same set up as mine is yours non resonated ? 

[Foulsmell 120]

11 hours ago, Foulsmell said: Here is my dyno sheet from TDev. Full Milltek exhaust with 2nd cat delete and K&N panel filter. Gives you an idea.

As said before stock power reads around 185-190.

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That's the same set up as mine is yours non resonated ? 

Resonated.

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[long-gone 152]

On 14/10/2016 at 6:14 PM, Foulsmell said:

+1. Get a delete pipe then have it mapped again. One map for complete decat and one with 2nd cat for MOT.

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Not for me thanks. It's loud as it is and removing secondary cat would be unbearable. 

Anyway, the manifolds removed the dip so it feels way better than the numbers suggest. I'm happy as-is for the moment - until the urge to go for FI takes hold.

[Foulsmell 120]

On 14/10/2016 at 6:14 PM, Foulsmell said: +1. Get a delete pipe then have it mapped again. One map for complete decat and one with 2nd cat for MOT.

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Not for me thanks. It's loud as it is and removing secondary cat would be unbearable. 

Anyway, the manifolds removed the dip so it feels way better than the numbers suggest. I'm happy as-is for the moment - until the urge to go for FI takes hold.

Just get a resonated pipe.

But like you say. It's not about numbers it's how it drives.

I deleted the torque dip by never being in it

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[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

Just for clarification.  There are more than two Tuning developments turbos out there and also these came to market 2.5 - 3 yrs after the Avo, for quite a long time if you wanted a turbo the avo was basically the only one available.