TRD Heavy Duty Top Mount

[kurosagi01 41]

So i asked this question in the other forum and got 1 feedback,so i thought i'll give it a go here aswell,  So  i was looking at various lowering options and i know few people have changed the top mounts on other cars to improve steering feedback,but i was just wondering if anyone tried the TRD top mount or heard anything positive about it or better alternatives around same price range or any benefits in changing it.

I have searched the web and couldn't really find any info on it at all.

[Church 209]

I'd prefer Raceseng/Velox camplates. Simply due their versatility to be used with wide range of coilovers, not just stock OEM or some specific aftermarket ones, leaving upgrade choices open in future. Of course that is if some coilovers don't come with own camplates in set.

[S18 RSG 429]

If you're asking the question based on changing the top mount of the stock strut, and going with lowering springs, I would suggest that you'll end up spending 75% of what you would spend on coilovers going down that route, so I'd possibly suggest saving a little more for coilovers.

But, to answer your question, I would imagine the TRD parts would do the job well, but they do tend to be a lot more expensive than good quality aftermarket bits. 

In theory, the benefit of changing top mounts is much the same as changing bushes. Stock bushes, much like the stock top mount, will be rubber and have a fair amount of play, which can result in some sloppiness to the steering. Changing to a more solid bushing, or a more solid top mount, reduces that sloppiness and improves steering feel. The added benefit with some top mounts is you can also get camber adjustment, but I'm not sure if the TRD mounts have that.

But, to go back to the original point I made, if you're considering lowering, coilovers are probably your best bet. I was adamant about doing springs and shocks originally, despite everyone telling me to go coilovers. I had springs for a few days before swapping to coilovers and I know others have done the same. Save yourself the hassle

[rob275 1817]

I don't really know what benefit you're going to get out of it very little i'd imagine. The stock top mount isn't particularly spongey so i'm not sure why is even exists on the market.

You'd be better off with a caster / camber plate (raceseng do some) But most aftermarket coilovers come with adjustable top mounts anyway so it might be a better option in terms of pricing by the time you've added things up.

[kurosagi01 41]

Well i was going go Coilovers but may decide not to because of price and won't benefit the use of coilovers,so i may go for the Eibach pro springs US spec+TRD top mount which is about £100 which isn't entirely bad. So for Eibach £270+TRD top mount is about £370 total vs coilover price as long as my shock absorber is fine of course seems to me a good upgrade for road use. Of course if shocks aren't in good condition then i will most definitely go coilovers route.

[S18 RSG 429]

I made the same argument about not getting the benefit of the coilovers, but I was completely wrong.

The unwritten benefit of coilovers vs springs is that you have damping that's well matched to your spring rate, which results in a more comfortable ride. 

The stock dampers were designed for use with the stock springs, so going to a shorter, stiffer spring (which most, if not all lowering springs will be) means you will have a mismatch in that department. You will always have a more bouncy, harsher ride than stock. 

You can get around this problem by matching your new springs with new dampers, but that's another £500 on top of the springs. That's why going to coilovers is the better idea. It's not just the benefit of having adjustable ride height and damping (in most cases), but having a more compliant ride also.

And remember, even the lowest spec Tein coilovers (which are less than £600) are still very good. Adjustable damping, adjustable ride height, and a far better ride than stock from my experience, and you'll find that opinion wherever you look.

[kurosagi01 41]

So even the Tein Street Advanced are still better investment is what your saying?? I was originally thinking of saving and importing the Apexi N1 EXV from the states but decided against it because of hassle of imports and lack of UK reviews for them.

[S18 RSG 429]

Certainly a better investment than springs on stock dampers, yes. Springs are fine if you only care about lowering your car and making it handle slightly better. Coilovers give you those same benefits, with added benefits of being able to adjust the ride height as you see fit, adjust damping for different roads, and having a comfortable ride, even more so than stock.

People on this forum will tell you the Street Advanced are not good, which is why I'm glad I got to you first. Unlike most, I've actally owned both the Street Advance and Tein Flex Z. I found so little difference that I stuck with the cheaper option. The more expensive Flex A coilovers with the hydraulic bump stop are almost certainly better, but they're also 50% more expensive and nearly £900.

[kurosagi01 41]

Mainly aiming for lowering the car and slightly better handling really but i had the mindset of some day taking the car on track in near distance future hence why i was thinking of getting coilovers before.

The Ft86 forum certainly don't like the Street advanced from what i've read and most people on here are running Flex Z? The way i see coilovers is just strange apart from build quality if they all do same thing what actually sets them apart?

[S18 RSG 429]

There are only 2 major differences between the Street Advance and Flex Z. Then one or two minor differences which would make very little difference to any normal person.

The Flex Z have camber adjustable top mounts, something which can be achieved with a £20 set of camber bolts.

The Flex Z are rebuildable. The downside of this is that when they do fail, you need to send the dampers off for 3-4 weeks for them to be rebuilt by Tein, and you're therefore without any suspension for that time. Also, the cost of rebuilding is only slightly cheaper than buying new dampers, which is what you'd have to do when the dampers fail on the Street Advance.

The reason for the cheaper sale price, is during manufacturing they don't have to manufacture seals to allow the dampers to be taken apart and rebuilt. The Street Advance dampers are a sealed unit. Some may say that's an advantage as there's less chance of leaks through failed seals.

It's also worth noting that Tein suggest a rebuild every 35k miles. Some people may not even do 35k miles throughout their ownership. If you plan to, that's worth taking into account.

All the information above is either from the Tein website or quoted from Tein representatives when talking about these products.

[Church 209]

Except special topmounts that look like extruded bowls to place top of shock higher for lowering but keep full shock travel, i don't get much how camber plates in general can be used for lowering. Their most common use is to add camber adjustment capability. Pillowball bearings to lessen slack in suspension usually is secondary function. But also not related much to lowering.

Every coilover may have different spring rates, different valving for dampening/high speed & low speed rebounds, may have different extent of quality control, different optional services or set (eg. some can be revalved, some not, some include own camplates, some do not). I'm not familiar with mentioned street advanced somethings, but flex Z seems in reviews very well spoken of for what it provides at lower budget range.

[long-gone 152]

55 minutes ago, S18 RSG said:

Certainly a better investment than springs on stock dampers, yes. Springs are fine if you only care about lowering your car and making it handle slightly better. Coilovers give you those same benefits, with added benefits of being able to adjust the ride height as you see fit, adjust damping for different roads, and having a comfortable ride, even more so than stock.

People on this forum will tell you the Street Advanced are not good, which is why I'm glad I got to you first. Unlike most, I've actally owned both the Street Advance and Tein Flex Z. I found so little difference that I stuck with the cheaper option. The more expensive Flex A coilovers with the hydraulic bump stop are almost certainly better, but they're also 50% more expensive and nearly £900.

Maybe not quite that expensive, list is only £640 +VAT: CLICK - unless you include the cost of fitting (which would be similar whichever you went for, no?).

Edited June 29, 2016 by daidaiiro
Bad info, see post below.

[S18 RSG 429]

2 minutes ago, Church said:

I'm not familiar with mentioned street advanced somethings, but flex Z seems in reviews very well spoken of for what it provides at lower budget range.

You're correct about the reviews, however what I've found is that most people with bad things to say about the Street Advance are people who've not actually tried them, but have read through the spec sheet and decided to go with the Flex Z.

Anyone who's actually tried the Street Advance give positive reviews. The most famous is TJ Hunt. He had the Street Advance coilovers on his BRZ for almost 2 years, and whenever he mentioned them on his Youtube channel he had nothing but good things to say.

[S18 RSG 429]

4 minutes ago, daidaiiro said:

Maybe not quite that expensive, list is only £640 +VAT: CLICK - unless you include the cost of fitting (which would be similar whichever you went for, no?).

Flex A £876 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25640&xSec=8437

Flex Z £744 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25301&xSec=8437

Street Advance £552 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25302&xSec=8437

Remember, that product page considers the lowest price of their entire range. The GT86 coilovers aren't the cheapest set they make, so the £640 MSRP is likely for a cheaper car.

To see GT86 prices, you must use this link if you want to see RRP http://www.tein.co.uk/srch/uk_search.php?maker=TOYOTA&carmodel=86&modelyear=2012.04%2b&item=default

[Church 209]

12 minutes ago, S18 RSG said:

The Flex Z are rebuildable. The downside of this is that when they do fail, you need to send the dampers off for 3-4 weeks for them to be rebuilt by Tein, and you're therefore without any suspension for that time. Also, the cost of rebuilding is only slightly cheaper than buying new dampers, which is what you'd have to do when the dampers fail on the Street Advance.

Isn't it other way around? As in Flex Z are the ones NOT rebuildable (Flex A is rebuildable), but you just exchange sealed damper cartridge?

[long-gone 152]

4 minutes ago, S18 RSG said:

Flex A £876 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25640&xSec=8437

Flex Z £744 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25301&xSec=8437

Street Advance £552 inc VAT http://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25302&xSec=8437

Remember, that product page considers the lowest price of their entire range. The GT86 coilovers aren't the cheapest set they make, so the £640 MSRP is likely for a cheaper car.

To see GT86 prices, you must use this link if you want to see RRP http://www.tein.co.uk/srch/uk_search.php?maker=TOYOTA&carmodel=86&modelyear=2012.04%2b&item=default

Ah, sorry - my mistake. I'll get me coat...

[S18 RSG 429]

2 minutes ago, Church said:

Isn't it other way around? As in Flex Z are the ones NOT rebuildable (Flex A is rebuildable), but you just exchange sealed damper cartridge?

Yeah, you could be right. I know one of them is. If that is the case then disregard that point.

[kurosagi01 41]

Ill probably be averaging 12-15k a year but i will be hoping that will change once i can move out lol,but at the rate i daily the car i would be looking at changing suspension setup once every 2 and half years which is going to be expensive. £768 is a lot for coilovers still daidaiiro and yeah i noticed TJ hunt used street advanced too. To me £552 once every 2 and half years if they did fail around 35k mileage still works out cheaper+save time than buying Flex A + rebuild and waiting time for it to be fixed. Not everyone has  time or space to store old suspension or would have another car to commute all the time.

[S18 RSG 429]

1 minute ago, kurosagi01 said:

Ill probably be averaging 12-15k a year but i will be hoping that will change once i can move out lol,but at the rate i daily the car i would be looking at changing suspension setup once every 2 and half years which is going to be expensive. £768 is a lot for coilovers still daidaiiro and yeah i noticed TJ hunt used street advanced too. To me £552 once every 2 and half years if they did fail around 35k mileage still works out cheaper+save time than buying Flex A + rebuild and waiting time for it to be fixed. Not everyone has  time or space to store old suspension or would have another car to commute all the time.

I think the reason people enjoy the idea behind the rebuildable units as that they work out better for track cars which aren't daily driven. Track cars take a lot more punishment than DD cars, so I wouldn't be surprised if a track car's suspension would need to be rebuilt in half that distance (10-15k miles wouldn't surprise me). At that rate, it's cheaper to have them rebuilt than have to continually replace parts, and on a car that isn't daily driven, you don't need to worry about being without the car for a while.

On the flip side, at £550 (well, significantly less than that after you negotiate our club discount) you could almost drive the car for 2 years, then replace the entire set of coilovers again for a similar price as buying the Flex A's in the first place.

[kurosagi01 41]

I see thats fair enough and that to me is a win win situation in my opinion,but i am still deciding whether to go coils or not,i found a interesting kit on ebay for Eibach lowering springs+anti-roll bar handling kit and possibly could get it for cheap price.

[S18 RSG 429]

Obviously the final decision is all yours, all I can do is offer an opinion, and one that I'm sure differs from everyone else on this site.

My final thought on the matter, as I mentioned earlier, is that most everybody I know who's started with springs and/or any combination of parts that wasn't a set of coilovers, has eventually moved to coilovers, and many of those people, myself included, had initially shared the same or similar views to yourself.

You can benefit from our experiences by going straight to where we all ended up without the costly experimentation that led to this decision

[Lauren 2259]

On 29 June 2016 at 0:04 PM, kurosagi01 said:

Ill probably be averaging 12-15k a year but i will be hoping that will change once i can move out lol,but at the rate i daily the car i would be looking at changing suspension setup once every 2 and half years which is going to be expensive. £768 is a lot for coilovers still daidaiiro and yeah i noticed TJ hunt used street advanced too. To me £552 once every 2 and half years if they did fail around 35k mileage still works out cheaper+save time than buying Flex A + rebuild and waiting time for it to be fixed. Not everyone has  time or space to store old suspension or would have another car to commute all the time.

I really wouldn't worry about the rebuildable issue. I've done around 65K miles on my Tein Street Flex (before the Z and A were out) with EDFC Active Pro and I can report no problems. I'm still winning at sprints with them and I use my car every day. Currently at 86K miles. They're reliable. 

Flex A are rebuildable Flex Z are not. But a bit of a non-issue really. 

 

[Church 209]

Imho more of a real difference would be A having hydraulic bumpstops, but Z - not. Price difference is rather small, i heard, valving is same too, thus making them overall almost same product in everything but HBS.

BTW, i still am very fond of flex Z concept - producing unserviceable sealed units for less with simple cartridge change when it's due to replacement. I can imagine myself choosing more capable coilovers, but thought of paying to ship them out of country and then back for servicing with more then tripling price that most probably will result in me buying complete replacements anyway, so why pay for that extra? It might be different for you guys in UK, where probably there are local dealers/service shops for some of common shocks manufacturers, but not so for me in much smaller country with almost all the parts getting imported from elsewhere with near to no local support.

[KobayashiMaru 28]

Does anyone run Bilstein or H&R Coilovers?

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Does anyone run Bilstein or H&R Coilovers?

Yes - me now. Just posted a review thread...

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