Update for future reference: Lauren was right, it was the drop links. On inspection they looked fine, but as I had the car in the air anyway, I replaced them, and the noise has gone.
Surprised (and annoyed), as the old links looked and felt fine after removal...no splits in the boot that I can see, and they didn't feel too loose. I may cut the boots open later and check the rose joints.
And they are a pain in the arse to remove, even after only 6 months on the car. Still, preferable to having the strut assembly out.
Yesterday I met up with my old friend, Ross for a comparison of our cars. We’ve known each other for a fair few years now through both having GT86’s. He has had his Championship White, FK8 Civic Type-R for 18 months. I’ve had my GR Yaris for two weeks and a thousand miles. In my mind, I still feel like I’m learning my car as it is such a departure from driving a GT86 which I have done for eight years. Still, you know what they say about old dogs and new tricks eh, so I am on a big learning curve with this one. This was my main reason for holding off reviewing it, as I don’t feel I’ve got my head round it yet. However, Ross typically forced my hand, and I couldn’t resist the chance to have some serious car talk and try out his Civic Type-R.
The Civic, I am obviously well aware of and I’ve been in Ross’s car before. I have to admit, it is a car that intrigued me as I’ve owned a DC2 back in the noughties. In fact if the GR Yaris hadn’t been announced I was seriously considering one. Starting with the FK8, I’ve always struggled a bit with it’s looks, though I’m all for function over form, but I guess looking at the standard Civic, it was always going to be a difficult task to make it look pretty. Ross is running 19” forged wheels on his FK8 with PS4S tyres, so matching those of the Yaris.
The first and immediate thought once you’ve got past the exterior and sit in the car, is how good the seats are. Again, they are not pretty looking seats, but they work and feel excellent. The driving position too, is excellent and the controls feel well to hand. I love a titanium gear knob and it’s positioning is spot on. Likewise the steering wheel, feels great and is a nice size. The main touch points are great, though the cheapness of the steering wheel buttons is just awful. Then there is the dash which is okay, though perhaps a little low res for what we expect today, but it works perfectly well. I wasn’t sure about the ‘boost’ gauge which looks a bit like a pint being filled with Red Bull, but these are details that matter far less. The Civic has three driving modes, comfort, sport and R+ mode for which the dash gets progressively redder and the dampers get firmer. Throttle response and steering weight also changes. Unless you are in cruise control and therefore not on the throttle I wouldn’t use comfort mode unless you wish to punish yourself, it’s horrible with over light steering and a lack of any throttle response.
On the road in the Civic, the immediate thing that hits you is the feel of this car. It just feels like a racing car on the road. It’s so sharp and that sharpness comes from an absolutely nailed down front end. Steering feel is excellent and it feels a special place to be, even sitting in traffic. Ross told me had had changed the map to make it feel more standard though slightly increased at around 335bhp. My first thought was how is it going to manage this through the front wheels and true to form, as I exited a junction and pushed my foot to the floor, the car scrabbled for grip, sending me towards the limiter. I’d better grab second then. The gearbox has a lovely mechanical feel to it and is of the type that rewards precision. Second gear in and traction is not a problem. In the wet I can see how this would be an issue, but it is the limitation of pushing so much power through the front wheels. That said, it copes with it very well and the engine is very linear in its response. Considering this, it needs to be as compared to the more punchy delivery of the Yaris it’d be breaking traction a lot more otherwise.
Ross demonstrated the manner in which his car piles on the speed and it is impressive that it just doesn’t let up right up to the speed limit. The over riding feeling in the Honda is all about the front end. as I push the car into a fast right hander where the camber falls away and edge my foot to the floor, I can feel the diff pulling me round. Any worries about understeer, are unfounded because if I want to tighten my line, the diff just does this with aplomb. When Ross demonstrated it to me, I thought he was having a few stabs at turn in and mocked him for it, but wow, that aggressive front differential is everything that makes the Civic what it is. This car does inspire confidence and it feels properly special as a Type-R should. Whilst driving it, it conjured up visions of thinking I’d kicked Matt Neal out of his seat for the next BTCC race.
Now onto my car. My interest in the GR Yaris was first piqued by two words. ‘Homologation Special’, undoubtedly the holy grail for a petrolhead worth their salt. After seeing the specification I was even more intrigued and whilst I wasn’t sure I believed the shock with which it was a bit lukewarmly received in the prototype reviews Estoril a year ago now, I took a punt and put in a pre-order at the earliest opportunity. For the next 9 months I did feel some anxiety, as what if it’s no good people would ask me, what if the reviews come out and it’s awful, what would I do? My answer was that I’d probably cancel and buy an FK8 Type-R, but obviously I so wanted the GR Yaris to be good, it has to be, I thought. When the reviews came out on the 10th November, I breathed a sigh of relief and then a whole load of anticipation as the press adored it. Part of my reasoning for the Yaris is that I wanted to try 4WD too and the rear bias in Sport Mode excited me as I’m such a rear-wheel-drive stalwart. To me it was the ability to have handling characteristics of three cars in one, depending on how my mood took me.
In many ways all the GR Yaris and Civic Type-R share are similar performance figures and a similar price. the Civic is the racing car, that feels like it should be on the BTCC grid, the Yaris, feels like it’s emerged from a special stage. This is no bad thing as it provides the cars with different characteristics.
Getting in the Yaris, the driving position is high, I explained to Ross, it’s something you have to accept and it’s almost like Gazoo Racing want you to sit over the wheel and adopt an Elfyn Evans style posture. It feels wrong at first, but you adapt quickly. Vision due to the massive infotainment screen and the rear mirror position has been obsessively debated to the point of nauseam on the internet. The reality is, you don’t notice once on the move. It’s a bit like you don’t worry about how the Civic looks, once you’re behind the wheel. The touch points in the Yaris are excellent. The steering wheel is lovely and has a thinner rim and is better for it. The gearstick has been raised 5cm which places it closer to the wheel. This is good and looking at the GR Yaris you have to love it’s specification for homologation reasons. Carbon polymer rood, aluminium bonnet, boot and doors and those beautiful bulging rear arches that fill the mirror. There is a ton of other detail to pour over and it feels every bit the rally refugee. You notice this even down to the unpadded Alcantara door panels, which save weight of course.
The dash in the Yaris is analogue which may disappoint some, but on the other hand, its clarity is obvious with two big dials for tachometer and speedometer with various displays that can be selected in the 4” TFT display between the clocks. The boost gauge with oil pressure and temperature are an obvious favourite.
Pulling away in the Yaris, traction is absolute as one would expect. In normal mode it runs a 60:40 torque split and gives more of a front wheel drive feel. It’s a very safe way to drive the car as going into fast into a corner will tend towards understeer and you lift and it comes back. However, normal mode does not allow a more relaxed stability control and really on the road, unless you disable it completely. I tend to favour sport mode with its rear wheel drive bias with a 30:70 torque split, it lightens the steering and corrupts it less. Feel is good and it does weight up with speed. Toyota run this torque split on tarmac in their WRC cars and I like it how it gives more of a feel of the car being pushed from the rear. I favour track mode with a 50:50 split for wet, muddy B roads where you can use the front diff to pull you out of corners. Ross directed me down what could have been an actual rally stage! Wet, muddy and single track with plenty of crests. I launched my car at it and even with a poor surface to the road, it just flew down there giving me absolute confidence and pulling me out of every turn. I doubt anything really could have kept up with the Yaris on this sort of terrain and it would have taken the Civic way out of its comfort zone. Steering feel in the Yaris is good, though it does not exhibit the singularity of purpose of the Civic, but then the Civic’s front end typifies and defines that car.
We did some testing through some wide sweeping corners and the Yaris is surprising with how it is simply not fazed. Body roll is well controlled and the development that comes from having a World Rally Team and the likes of Tommi Makkinen setting up the chassis from the ground up, hugely pays off. This car is immensely capable. The punch of that tiny 1.6 litre three cylinder turbo engine is more punchy than the Civic, so it feels faster, but it has the traction to exploit this. My problem is that I know I will have to take my car on track to learn what it can really do as I suppose the public road in the middle of December is perhaps not the place.
In Summary:
We are comparing two very different cars here, their similarities really only centre on price and on paper performance, but they give two very different options. Firstly the Civic, a race car for the road, great steering, love how it feels special on any occasion behind the wheel just like my DC2 did. A true Type-R and all the better for it. It has great bite and the manner in which that limited slip differential work is truly beguiling. It’s a practical car too and I can see how it would be epic on track. The Yaris is a rally car. In the same way the Civic feels like a refugee that took a wrong turn on the way to the BTCC, the Yaris, feels like it should throwing itself down a gravel stage in Myhren or perhaps Clocaenog. This makes it so special. Perhaps driving the car on my daily commute it does not evoke the special feeling that was so apparent in the Civic, but oh my when you wake it up, that comes in spades. Another consideration when comparing these two cars is that the GR Yaris has in effect nothing to compare itself to as it is the only homologation special car you can buy. Would I want to have a Civic Type-R instead? My answer is no, though I love it may need to borrow Ross’s car on occasion. For me, I’ve done the Type-R thing when I had my DC2 and have learnt that front wheel drive does not have to equal boring and it is anything but. However, I wanted to try something different. The GR Yaris is my first turbo and four wheel drive car. It clearly has many layers to peel and I can already feel that is of the type that gives more the deeper you delve. This is always the sign of a good car. Ultimately between the two cars it simply comes down to what your preference is, do you want a road racer or a rally car? What is in no doubt is that they are absolutely both brilliant cars. Enjoy them whilst you still can I say.
In an update of mapping the tuning box, good progress has been made. Nervous me has had plenty of reassurances from Richard and Gary has checked the fuelling which is nice and rich on full boost at the top end. I have also received information from trusted sources that the stock bottom end will take 500bhp and been advised that I'm barely tickling it at 305bhp. This is good news. I have had some revisions done to the map, to wind back the boost a bit at 3000rpm and make it a bit more linear. The guy at DTUK has been excellent with taking a lot of time to discuss and revise and checking in with me every day this week, when I've been in the car. This has helped and the car is absolutely flying now. The boost increase is 0.2 bar/2.9psi, so it's nothing too crazy.
Really enjoyed the EVO article too.
Thanks Lauren, that's good to hear, as I can check and change the links easily myself. The car has been checked twice since the link was installed (inspected after the recall and a video sent to me where they mentioned the drop links looking fine, funnily enough) and also went through the MOT. But if it's only a tiny split, then it could easily be missed. And the car has been driven in some torrential weather lately...so water ingress is likely I guess.
I expect one of the boots on your drop links has been damaged whilst being installed. It got diabolical when turning, the creaking noise was just awful. But it was quiet otherwise. It was a tiny split in the boot on the offside where the rose joint bolted into the strut. No way could you see it really without removing it. Once it was off though you could see the rose joint had gone rusty.
In an update of mapping the tuning box, good progress has been made. Nervous me has had plenty of reassurances from Richard and Gary has checked the fuelling which is nice and rich on full boost at the top end. I have also received information from trusted sources that the stock bottom end will take 500bhp and been advised that I'm barely tickling it at 305bhp. This is good news. I have had some revisions done to the map, to wind back the boost a bit at 3000rpm and make it a bit more linear. The guy at DTUK has been excellent with taking a lot of time to discuss and revise and checking in with me every day this week, when I've been in the car. This has helped and the car is absolutely flying now. The boost increase is 0.2 bar/2.9psi, so it's nothing too crazy.
Really enjoyed the EVO article too.
Great article in Feb issue of EVO mag! GR Yaris versus 22b and Quattro Sport. GRY acquits itself well against these rally-bred giants. I had not realised that a 22B commands £150-200k, and a Quattro £500k. Makes the GRY appear great value to get that kind of buzz today.
I've been out doing testing on the tuning box. It's from DTE and we've been liaising with them, cue 3 hours of testing up and down the A34 yesterday and numerous phone calls discussing the incredibly subtle differences in feel between three maps. I guess that is road testing for you. In the end I settled on one map being a favourite, Richard agreed and it turned out so did three of the other four testers. We have a plan moving forward.
What's it like. Well that struck both of us is just the crazy way it piles on speed, especially at the top end of the rev range. As expected it's f'ing quick, though the tuning box just adds to the stock madness of the car. It doesn't ruin it and it doesn't make the car feel over powered or dominated by the power which is good, though a stock car feels pretty pokey. I think that this is all you need in terms of power for the GRY. It's a little upgrade and just adds the required amount, a bit like a remap and manifold on the GT. I'm sold on this for sure.
I won't be realistically looking at changing anything too quickly, I've still only had my car for six weeks. I'm still in the novelty phase of being able to go over speed humps without wincing and that does have some appeal as I spend a lot of time driving around residential streets for work.
I also need to try my car out on track, when COVID allows, as I need to understand how it handles stock.
In other news, I've teamed up with Richard and a tuning box company, and will be doing some testing, which is fine tuning of the box yet. It's a mild increase to 300bhp/300lbft which will be interesting to try. Not that the car doesn't feel fast enough stock, but a lot of people will want that slight boost in power.
Seems to be working now. At the minute on the tapatalk app a moderate button has activated. I'll log into my PC later to check if there is something else that does not show on app.
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