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MPS

Brake Pedal Effort??

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Hi all,

New (used) first time GT86 owner here. How much effort does the brake pedal need?, how long is a piece of string question I know. Driving my Kia runabout I can brake around town just using my foot pressure/weight only, the GT86 needs a firmer push - no initial bite - at higher speeds seems relatively 'normal'. 

The car has been recently MOT'd, I haven't inspected the brakes but can see the anti rattle plates look new. Car pulls up fine in a straight line, servo works fine, all brake seem warm after a drive so I don't think any calipers are sticking. Does the GT86 need a firmer push at lower speed? Any thoughts please 😁

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Hi all,
New (used) first time GT86 owner here. How much effort does the brake pedal need?, how long is a piece of string question I know. Driving my Kia runabout I can brake around town just using my foot pressure/weight only, the GT86 needs a firmer push - no initial bite - at higher speeds seems relatively 'normal'. 
The car has been recently MOT'd, I haven't inspected the brakes but can see the anti rattle plates look new. Car pulls up fine in a straight line, servo works fine, all brake seem warm after a drive so I don't think any calipers are sticking. Does the GT86 need a firmer push at lower speed? Any thoughts please
A lot of cars have quite a lot of assisted braking. Not sure if its a good thing or not but the gt86 doesn't seem to have that in my experience. It may be a reflection that your brake pads and discs are a bit tired

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk

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Thanks for your reply, I have bought some new pads in readiness, I will have a look at the discs and replace if necessary, I'm just trying to get a handle on what is 'normal' as I haven't read any negative comments about the standard brakes for road use. 

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The GT86 has less servo assistance which is definitely a good thing and hallelujah that Toyota didn't overly servo the brakes as you find on far too many cars these days. It's your Kia that has over assisted brakes that is more the problem. 

Having a bit less servo, means better feel. Don't worry about it, just get used to it and appreciate it. 👍

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2 minutes ago, Lauren said:

The GT86 has less servo assistance which is definitely a good thing and hallelujah that Toyota didn't overly servo the brakes as you find on far too many cars these days. It's your Kia that has over assisted brakes that is more the problem. 

Having a bit less servo, means better feel. Don't worry about it, just get used to it and appreciate it. 👍

Thanks, yes the brakes seems fine a higher speed, just lack initial bite at lower speed, will have to put some more miles to retrain my brain 👍

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With the caveat that I’ve recently changed my brakes to the AP racing BBK, I noticed that my brake pedal travel was long before any bite. Towards the end of travel it was soft but firm enough to modulate/heel and toe etc. In order to get maximum brake pressure I have to press hard but not overly so, to activate the ABS. Certainly harder than other over servo’d cars. And about half of the little brake pressure indicator bar on the dashboard.

I plan to do a full brake fluid flush including master cylinder at some point. The fluid is old and may have absorbed a bit of water. I’m hoping this will firm up the pedal a bit. Although I know it will never feel like a race car which can feel as hard as a block of wood!

Has anyone tried a master cylinder brace? I’ve heard this can improve the feel of the pedal too.

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Yeah, every new car may mean getting used to .. depending on how quickly one learns it may differ, but imho one should daily drive at least for month, to properly get used to different specifics. Clutch bite point, brake pedal, car turning radius, visibility, optimum gear switch rpms .. even blind operation of misc switches/selectors eg. for light/wiper modes/cruise control/audio unit control ..

I too am in camp that overassisted brakes with high initial brake bite are evil, and less (but still assisted even on ours) are better, as simply allow braking just the right amount, without neck-braking "dive". I hate when brake actuation is NOT like in our cars :)

EDIT

choupolo: long travel sounds like you may still have air in system imho. as for race car .. big brakes and high friction pads is like .. one third of picture. The biggest impact of high braking for racing cars is high tire grip, both due specific grippy tires, and also due extra aero-downforce adding grip. Car can stop as quick as tires allow. Brakes are in there only if they are sufficient to fully exploit grippy tires (eg. braking till locking(or triggering ABS) tires), or not able to and leaving some braking distance on table. BBK just adds increased heat capacity and rate of cooling to that, allowing to brake more times w/o overheat.

Master cylinder brace is like braided lines, feel-wise. Some feel some difference, some don't. Do it flexes where it's mounted? Yes. Do lines expand a bit? Yes. But as for you feel wise it still ends with specific pressure (which you remember more in muscle memory, then brake pedal travel, which those MCB & braided lines may affect by removing or reducing mentioned flexes) on pedal vs specific braking force. Some feel it, and say that MCB/braided lines improve precision .. and some don't. It certainly won't fix your long pedal travel before bite, caused by something else. I have installed MCB & braided lines .. and by my subjective "butt dyno" i didn't feel much difference to be honest. Different brake pads - certainly different brake feel. MCB & lines? Very little, might be also from expecting change and from wish to justify purchase :)

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Thanks Church. Yep certainly could be some air in the system, fingers crossed it’ll feel better after the full bleed. I don’t mind the pedal feel but I’d definitely like to get rid of some travel.

Wont bother with the master cylinder brace just yet then, which are surprisingly expensive!

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Last week I drove an almost new Auris, provided by the garage where my GT86 was for service. First thing I noticed, was the synthetic feel of brakes and steering.

So kudos for the GT86.

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2 hours ago, choupolo said:

Thanks Church. Yep certainly could be some air in the system, fingers crossed it’ll feel better after the full bleed. I don’t mind the pedal feel but I’d definitely like to get rid of some travel.

Wont bother with the master cylinder brace just yet then, which are surprisingly expensive!

Interestingly I had a Cusco master cyclinder brace, I then swapped to a Cusco strut bar with a built in MCB and noticed an improvement in pedal feel. More so than when I fitted the Cusco MCB.

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Subjective thing. I've heard about 3/4 of people telling they feel change, and 1/4 that it was waste of money. In defense of MCB i have to say that it's not that expensive, can be thrown in among other ordered parts in bigger order, and simple to install (unlike braided lines). So even if it doesn't net much, not much lost either.

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7 hours ago, MPS said:

Thanks for your reply 

Sorry that wasn't really that helpful was it. I came to the 86 from a seat Leon, the brakes felt like they didn't bite as hard initially after the change. Now however driving my dad's civic I nearly headbutt the front window when I break as I'm used to the 86. Now I'm used to it it gives far more feedback than a lot of cars. 

 

When you say the pedal is long, it's that  long to initiate or long / spongy once initiated? 

The first should be OK, the second suggests there way be air in the system. 

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Thanks for the replies 🙂, I will continue to drive as I haven't done that many miles, I do have some new pads plus SS braided brake hoses that I will fit at some stage, but am in no hurry to do so, when I get around to it I will report back. 

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Coming to my 2017 GT86 with 9k on the clock I was a little bothered by the lack of initial bite but having said that I disliked the newer cars I've had in the past with v bitey initial braking.

For me it's more of a confidence thing as I like to be able to brush off a little speed without fully digging into the pedal. I've no reservations about the ultimate stopping power but again, the lack of initial bite isn't as I'd care for with my driving style.

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Just thought I would update on this topic even though it was some time ago. I fitted the stainless steel flexible lines, did notice some improvement although brakes still felt a little 'wooden'. So later I decided to fit the new pads to see if that was the issue, I found the front pads on one side were stuck in the carrier at an angle causing the pads to wear unevenly. I had to use a mallet to remove the pads from the carrier - they were that stuck. At the same time I replaced the discs, now the brakes feel fine. The car had a Toyota service history, and had even been in for noisy brakes although they weren't noisy for me. 

DSC_0827.JPG

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Good on you for finding the issue. This is a common failure mode, but it takes years to happen for the first time. If the slide plates and the carrier underneath them are not kept in good order, sticking pads are inevitable. Looks like some rather ugly corrosion on the top end of the squeal shim!

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Well .. actually when dealership during regular maintenance supposedly did "brake diagnostics", they should have caught it, and do some overhaul job, eg. cleaning some rust, relubing, changing rubber bushings on guides and so on..

So i wouldn't exactly call it "inevitable"

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Just thought I would add this as I weighed the discs before fitting them, I've seen them listed as 17 pounds, presumably Toyota OEM, I can't guarantee my scales are accurate, I still have the OEM discs which I will weigh at some stage (although with some wear). 

 

DSC_0816.JPG

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