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Luke

2021 GT86 and BRZ

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5 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

I believe there is a bypass valve to not run boost when cruising or low load conditions which explains the economy.

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Indeed, I’m pretty sure you’re correct. Still find it surprising that I’ve added around 70ish bhp and can still get 32mpg.

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Economy on modern cars is usually helped by auto/dc transmission and turbo charging. 

I'd be amazed if the new 86 has neither but tbh modern flappy paddle turbo cars are what most people want in sports cars.

 

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On 6/20/2020 at 7:36 PM, Tubbytommy said:

Economy on modern cars is usually helped by auto/dc transmission and turbo charging. 

I'd be amazed if the new 86 has neither but tbh modern flappy paddle turbo cars are what most people want in sports cars.

 

Sad but true. No matter how much faster flappy paddle semi autos change gear it still seems to drain the fun from the car. I hope the next gen doesn't have it (which it may not because they rarely are on cars that are sub 30k) but I wouldn't be mad if it did since they are , mechanically and economically better. After driving a Porsche carrea S, BMW m4 and BMW m235i i can say its the most bored I've felt with such power and 0-60 times. 

As for turbos ect, since Subaru has announced the next Impreza will be using a FA24 turbo'd, with US modders putting standard WRX impreza turbo on the current Subaru that uses the FA24 and it easily pulling 500 bhp, I'm starting to think the next 86 will either be the FA24 NA or stick with the FA20d and have a small turbo. 

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On 7/3/2020 at 3:09 PM, Kono said:

Sad but true. No matter how much faster flappy paddle semi autos change gear it still seems to drain the fun from the car. I hope the next gen doesn't have it (which it may not because they rarely are on cars that are sub 30k) but I wouldn't be mad if it did since they are , mechanically and economically better. After driving a Porsche carrea S, BMW m4 and BMW m235i i can say its the most bored I've felt with such power and 0-60 times. 

As for turbos ect, since Subaru has announced the next Impreza will be using a FA24 turbo'd, with US modders putting standard WRX impreza turbo on the current Subaru that uses the FA24 and it easily pulling 500 bhp, I'm starting to think the next 86 will either be the FA24 NA or stick with the FA20d and have a small turbo. 

I'd disagree with flappy paddles ruining the fun.

Its only the uk that's obsessed with a manual box,most that waffle on about them have never owned a fast car with a decent d/c box,its a comment you always read on a gt86 or mx5 forum.

Its not just about 0 to 60 times but the whole experience, a good dual clutch box enhances the drive.

Will the supra ever get a manual option?

Unlikely I'd say 

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You're overlooking the sheer satisfaction of using a manual gearbox and clutch well, something that takes years to master (and I'm still learning).

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20 minutes ago, MartinT said:

You're overlooking the sheer satisfaction of using a manual gearbox and clutch well, something that takes years to master (and I'm still learning).

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Exactly this. 👍

Not everyone wants flappy paddles and dual clutches. The serious drivers out there don't, which is a point proven with manual gearbox GT3's and the like being offered. The Supra could have a manual box, I believe as there is one for that engine that BMW use. I say enjoy manual gearboxes when you can because in a few years time they will be phased out on a lot of cars. This is exactly why I have the GR Yaris on order. Manual gearbox was a big selling point for me. :)

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2 hours ago, Lauren said:

Exactly this. 👍

Not everyone wants flappy paddles and dual clutches. The serious drivers out there don't, which is a point proven with manual gearbox GT3's and the like being offered. The Supra could have a manual box, I believe as there is one for that engine that BMW use. I say enjoy manual gearboxes when you can because in a few years time they will be phased out on a lot of cars. This is exactly why I have the GR Yaris on order. Manual gearbox was a big selling point for me. :)

Utter crap to claim serious drivers dont use dual clutch.

Latest batch of hyper cars dont have manual options ie mclaren senna.

I have no issues with Manual boxes at all but to claim serious drivers want them is rubbish.

Some cars suit manual boxes that's for sure but others don't. 

This is the wrong forum to debate the issue to be fair, low powered cars dont suit flappy paddles but higher powered stuff really does due to the speed of acceleration through rev range and gears 

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12 minutes ago, Tubbytommy said:

Utter crap to claim serious drivers dont use dual clutch.

Latest batch of hyper cars dont have manual options ie mclaren senna.

I have no issues with Manual boxes at all but to claim serious drivers want them is rubbish.

Some cars suit manual boxes that's for sure but others don't. 

This is the wrong forum to debate the issue to be fair, low powered cars dont suit flappy paddles but higher powered stuff really does due to the speed of acceleration through rev range and gears 

Drove e92 m3 extensively with both - manual is so much better.

Drove new m4 with paddles - it's just boring.

Had Gt86 with 320bhp, never had a problem with a manual.

Some people like one thing, some another. I like the interaction with the car that a manual gives.

No need to get so upset about a gearbox my dude.

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You had a manual GT86 and now potentially have the auto M2 comp. So you have been in a camp and not worth slating it. All people are saying is driver engagement. An auto does simplify the variables and makes driving easier with focus going to speed , braking, steering etc. The fun with manual is doing all those +
Clutch and gear, I.e. engagement
F1 cars and hyper cars are totally out of range of 99% of the population if not 99.9% , so no point talking about them or their tech. The future is automatic and electric at that, and no one will deny it but want to delay it.
Good luck with your Beemer

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It's like old vs new computer games. Yes, many of past were very hard and challenging, asking for you to dedicate lot of time and many tries/save loads to complete some level and such .. but when you succeeded, sense of accomplishment was much higher. Modern games? For whatever marketing reasons are simplified and made easy to play .. and forget. Somehow both for myself and for my friends .. i notice many replay from time to time old classics while spending less and less attention to new .. "hits". They don't excite anymore, they don't provide that sense of accomplishment, despite new ones having uber graphics and such .. but dumb plots, lgbt characters, easy difficulty. Some difficulty is still left where one is competing against other players online, but multiplayer is not by everybody's taste.

So even if it's future, even if it already technically is faster/more efficient .. AT imho is less engagement, less fun, less feeling good when one succeeds doing something well, which has been learnt for years.

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No slating from me, had countless performance cars and rate thr gt86 very highly amongst them.

Gt86 wouldn't suit flappy paddles at all but some cars really do,mostly high power stuff.

I will certainly consider the new gt86 as I loved the old one.

I had my name down for the new supra but the gearbox put me off, its an 8 speed slush box not a dct, worlds apart 

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I think Toyota would be do better to bring the smaller 2.0 manual supra to the UK and end the GT86. They can’t be selling hardly any anymore on our shores? I’m coming to the end of my 3 year PCP and think I’m going to keep my 86 over 0% on the supra. It’s just not as appealing as the under dog 86.

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56 minutes ago, MartinT said:

I don't think the Supra is any kind of replacement for the 86, it's a different beast altogether.

Totally different class of car.

Never driven the 2.0 but the one I tested was brutally fast but not very engaging, I put it down to the auto box.

I cant imagine you 2.0 is as good as the gt86 as its a heavy old beast

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3 hours ago, Tubbytommy said:

not really the model t ford was a manual.

Its called progress 

 

? Not to say new stuff isn’t better objectively, not much point if it wasn’t. It’s something are less engaging now then back in the day. Got nothing against autos or a good flappy in the right application. Just don’t feel either really suit light “sports” cars. I think we agree tbh 😂
 

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2 hours ago, Tubbytommy said:

Never driven the 2.0 but the one I tested was brutally fast but not very engaging, I put it down to the auto box.

I thought the ZF8 was a good gearbox. Changes are quick. The fact that many higher power M cars use it over a DCT certainly suggests that the ZF is not a poor man's DCT. Having driven both an M4 on track and the Supra, they both have the same issue IMO and it is the engagement factor. Driven in isolation I did enjoy them, but getting back into the 86 it's a clear comparison. I'd have a DCT M2 or even a ZF8 M240 because of the long distance I do and due to the fact the BM 6 speed doesn't get a good rep, but I'd rather a manual (not an option in the 240 any more).

I don't think we'll even see the 2.0 Supra here, they struggle to sell the 3.0. As there are no longer B58 manual cars, I doubt that will ever get it - I'd put money on the GRMN version still being the ZF.

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22 hours ago, Tubbytommy said:

I'd disagree with flappy paddles ruining the fun.

Its only the uk that's obsessed with a manual box,most that waffle on about them have never owned a fast car with a decent d/c box,its a comment you always read on a gt86 or mx5 forum.

Its not just about 0 to 60 times but the whole experience, a good dual clutch box enhances the drive.

Will the supra ever get a manual option?

Unlikely I'd say 

dude I've drove brand new 911 turbo s, Caymen S, a 600bhp M3, a M4, a RS6, m sport 235i, GTR black edition....all of them felt boring to drive because the car does all the work. Most of them (especially the BMW ) felt like sitting in a lounge watching TV. They are so efficient it doesn't feel like driving at all compared to a or manual/mechanical car. They all felt similar to my old mans 4.5l v8 range rover, but with less roll. Before my gt86, my daily drive was between  a 450 bhp Evo 5 and a toyota celica.

Out of all the cars I've had access to the most fun to drive honestly have been my brothers 1.3i original mini, the evo 5, GT86, 750 bhp R33 skyline and the wifes NB Mx5.  All of these cars felt more like you where connected to the car. You can feel everything and you are....mostly...in control of everything. Every fancy fast auto box car I've drove felt like the car did 90% of the work, specially with traction control, auto adjusting suspension and AWD systems. True a lot of these  dead/ boring feel may be due to other electronic systems in the car like those previously mentioned, but with auto boxes its another aspect of control you remove from yourself and let the car do for you. Anyone who says that all the new tech doesn't takes away from the actual driving experience and feel of a car, simply hasn't actually experienced a good manual car. 

 

Your claim about serious drives further down this thread  is true. Serious drivers are about lap times and as I originally stated, they are far more efficient and better because no one can change gear faster than the most recent boxes. Top hyper cars are all about the badge, big numbers and lap times. Nothing about fun or the feel of driving. 

 

Also the supra may end up with a manual eventually since they are adding manual boxes as a option on the next M4 and Z4 models. Since the supra is a reskined Z4 its possible 😮

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5 minutes ago, Tubbytommy said:

Its amazing how most people have driven everything fast and on the limit to get a real appreciation on how they handle 🤣

Well I certainly tested the M4 (probably in harder conditions than you have the M2....), Goodwood in torrential downpour actually highlighted where the DCT is great - having to short shift in corners as no other way to get the torque down and got to feel the chassis move around a fair bit even with the TCS on. I was gutted that they didn't have the M2 there as they hadn't received it yet but I did get to drive a manual M235i. In those conditions, the DCT made life easier. The "lack" of power in the 2 actually made it the better drive as it wasn't fighting for traction constantly and I felt it was the better chassis.

The 86 would be a worse car without a MT and it should have a better AT option than the current box.

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1 hour ago, will300 said:

Atleast most of us have got to experience the GT86 at the limit..... 

The limit is easy to find and very controllable,probably why it reviewed so well.

Trying one on track prompted me to buy one tbh

I'm really hoping the next gen handles as well but with more power

Oh and if you're trying to be clever suggesting mine never got on track you would be correct, it was being built for one purpose which did not happen due to coronovirus, rather than stick it away for another year i traded it for a new daily,I have however driven several on track.its easy to drive a slow car at the limit :)

Considering my next track option for later in the year 

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28 minutes ago, knightryder said:

Well I certainly tested the M4 (probably in harder conditions than you have the M2....), Goodwood in torrential downpour actually highlighted where the DCT is great - having to short shift in corners as no other way to get the torque down and got to feel the chassis move around a fair bit even with the TCS on. I was gutted that they didn't have the M2 there as they hadn't received it yet but I did get to drive a manual M235i. In those conditions, the DCT made life easier. The "lack" of power in the 2 actually made it the better drive as it wasn't fighting for traction constantly and I felt it was the better chassis.

The 86 would be a worse car without a MT and it should have a better AT option than the current box.

There are a lot of assumptions in this .

M2 comp has same engine and power as m4 and I bought a manual as like the gt86 the car suits it. Its a daily driver and will not see a track.

However flappy paddle boxes are needed in big bhp stuff due to speed through gears on track.

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