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Even on primacies these cars can grip more and go faster then many average generic family cars (wasn't with our cars on primacies that they still could pull 0.75G on skidpad?). If it seems that they are dangerous, imho you are overpushing and driving in too risky fashion. That is if it's about summer use, if winter's, then wrong season tire choice (again not attributable specifically to primacies, but to summer tires in general used in wrong season/weather). Normally one shouldn't get better tires for it to be "safe"/"not end up in ditch", but rather rethink how one drives, as most traffic signs (eg. about sharp turn ahead) / posted speed limits / average traffic flow speed are erred more on safe side for even less capable/grippy cars. You chosen all seasons for winter, did wise, but it doesn't mean that primacies are inherently bad, just used (if now) in wrong way/season.

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49 minutes ago, Church said:

Even on primacies these cars can grip more and go faster then many average generic family cars (wasn't with our cars on primacies that they still could pull 0.75G on skidpad?). If it seems that they are dangerous, imho you are overpushing and driving in too risky fashion. That is if it's about summer use, if winter's, then wrong season tire choice (again not attributable specifically to primacies, but to summer tires in general used in wrong season/weather). Normally one shouldn't get better tires for it to be "safe"/"not end up in ditch", but rather rethink how one drives, as most traffic signs (eg. about sharp turn ahead) / posted speed limits / average traffic flow speed are erred more on safe side for even less capable/grippy cars. You chosen all seasons for winter, did wise, but it doesn't mean that primacies are inherently bad, just used (if now) in wrong way/season.

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Going to have to disagree with this I found primacys shocking in cold and wet weather even when driving slow and sensible. I would put them worse than pretty much any of half decent tyre on any car iv drive . They were far to easy to slide on the road when not even trying and the amount of time my traction control used to kick in was laughable. Got an uphill dual carriage way slip road by my house and the tc used to kick in sometimes changing from 2nd to 3rd on stock power .

The pilot sport 4 are so much better in all conditions. It was slow but did do a track day at 0degrees on them and think that would have been impossible on the primacys 

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I was just going to say the same as @Daninplymouth.

It's simple; the Primacies lose a lot of grip when it's cold and wet.  PS4s (and every other tyre I've ever used) do not.

Winter tyres are a different matter.  I - and most of the UK - can get by perfectly fine on most "summer" tyres, for all but about 3 days of a typical year.  Using Primacies in the summer and then switching to winter tyres is the worst of all worlds; it takes time and money to switch and leaves you with tyres that are, at best, OK in the summer.  PS4s much more communicative and confidence inspiring in the wet.  They're also fine for the average UK winter, as are most other summer tyres.  You don't have to drive in a particularly risky way to get Primacies to break traction in the cold and wet in our cars.

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Keyword - cold. And if winters are very mild, there always are all seasons (including mentioned vector 4seasons). I mostly posted in defense of primacies if using in how they are not ever designed/intended to. Some summer tires may do a bit better in cold and wet, but it's not something to generalize/rely on, every tire is compromise and something else needs to be sacrificed. For example - threadwear / rolling resistance in PS4 case (and also primacies being older tire. Progress/improvement never stops). And "exception proves rule" :)

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I would argue that the primacys should not be fitted full stop. You say use as they were intended but I had quite a few case were mild acceleration coming off a roundabout would kick the back end out. It would be a compromise if you were using something like pilot sports or track specific tyres but for an all round tyre fitted as standard I thought the grip was laughable in anything other than dry conditions

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1 hour ago, Church said:

Keyword - cold. And if winters are very mild, there always are all seasons (including mentioned vector 4seasons). I mostly posted in defense of primacies if using in how they are not ever designed/intended to. Some summer tires may do a bit better in cold and wet, but it's not something to generalize/rely on, every tire is compromise and something else needs to be sacrificed. For example - threadwear / rolling resistance in PS4 case (and also primacies being older tire. Progress/improvement never stops). And "exception proves rule" :)

In the UK, we get plenty of rain any month of the year.  If grip is poor in the wet - as it undeniably is with the Primacies - that severely limits the amount of days where you can enjoy your car.

I feel a bit like I'm repeating myself here, but in much of the UK it just doesn't get cold enough, for long enough, to justify having dedicated winter tyres.  There's no more than a week or two per year that I'd feel I had to be careful, using PS4s.  It's just not worth the hassle of having a spare set of wheels, or swapping tyres over periodically.

 

If you think Primacies are worth having that's your choice.  For me, there are much better options as a summer tyre, and I can use those tyres for most of the year without worrying about whether I'm going to have enough grip.  The Primacies were OK as a summer tyre, but IMO even if you had winter tyres you'd be crazy to fit the Primacies out of choice.

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Totally agree with the above. For UK they are not suitable. You have to appreciate that even now the concept of swapping over tyres for winter is the exception rather than the rule so I find it bizarre that toyota UK fit a tyre that is moderate in the dry and unsuitable in the wet.

I don't need to look out for roads signs saying sharp bend, etc as I already do that. My issue is that these have let go in places where they shouldnt i.e. on the mini roundabout 2mins from where I live using hardly any throttle which perfectly demonstrates the lack of grip when cold and wet. Yes, my car is stock. Yes, the alignment is fine. Yes, there is nothing wrong with the suspension. So, I've adapted so I don't step the back out (unless I want to) but why should I have to given that in the 26 years of using that roundabout in all sorts of vehicles every single one can negotiate it at a higher speed that is still within 30mph limit. 

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The first time my BRZ stepped out on Primacies it was around a small roundabout and was frankly embarrassing.  There was hardly any speed or throttle involved.

That was the exact moment I decided they had to go.  They came off with very little mileage on them.

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We haven't had snow yet, as so often. Temperatures below 7 deg. C and a little water are enough to make summer tyres less grippy. I'm gonna find out which tyres offer the best lateral grip. Furthermore, I did some calculations on width versus circumference. A 225-45-17 tyre adds 1.43% to the circumference wrt 215-45-17. This would compensate for the somewhat optimistic speedometer, while giving a tiny bit of extra lateral grip. 

Over here in The Netherlands we get pretty much the same weather as in the UK.

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