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1 hour ago, MartinT said:

Yes, apologies, it was the older models of Cooper S.  Nice car, though.

Mercedes make superchargers work.  I know they're in the minority but I suggested a charger to keep the 86/BRZ's reputation for quick responses and drivability, not a strong point of turbos.

Merc used to have Kompressor based SC engines. Now they are very limited to SL55AMG and CL55 AMG ultra high performance models. 

https://www.mercedes-benzretailgroup.co.uk/mercedes-benz-cars/about-us/faqs/kompressor/

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19 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Merc used to have Kompressor based SC engines. Now they are very limited to SL55AMG and CL55 AMG ultra high performance models. 

https://www.mercedes-benzretailgroup.co.uk/mercedes-benz-cars/about-us/faqs/kompressor/

I had a 1.6 Supercharged C180K Merc. The new models replaced the SC with a turbo and gained a few MPG combined, for the same power output. 

 

Turbos are a bit better for fuel economy than supercharged, its only about 5% based on the Mercs but in todays market where a few hp matters, turbo wins. 

You still get better fuel economy from a 200hp 1.6 supercharged than you do from a 200hp 2.0litre high revving N/A engine.  Partly because the higher revving engine has shorter gearing to make use of the higher revs (to achieve the power). 

My 86 is doing about 3k at 70mph. My 20d BMW is doing half that with it 8speed gearbox. Frictional losses for one are lower with less revs and as been said forced induction improves thermal efficiency of the engine. 

 

Next gen 86 if it does go ahead will have to be turbo or supercharged to keep costs down I would think.

 

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I still think given the tie in between the 2 companies is for hybrid technology sharing, Subaru will move in that direction more and more and Toyota have started to look towards more performance hybrid power, as in the new 2 litre in the UX/Corolla, so I think it makes sense for the BRZ/86 to be a good model for them to be a first for both. Toyota will have the tech to make the batteries smaller and lighter and it will give instantaneous and linear torque which will suit the chassis.

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Yup, I’d lean towards it being hybrid. Tada said the Supra would be the last high revving petrol engined Toyota. Given Toyota’s investment in the tech, I’d be surprised if it were anything else. 

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A good hybrid has the ability to provide huge torque when required but otherwise be quite frugal.  It's all about balancing needs - you don't need power all the time but you sometimes want to accelerate hard.  Battery storage and electric motor assist do exactly that and the feeling is so integrated that you just sense your engine has grown larger temporarily.

The Honda IMA (electric assistance) always interested me more than the Toyota (electric first) system.

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We have a hybrid C-HR with 1.8 engine, and have tested the 2.0 hybrid in the Corolla recently.  Toyota have certainly moved the tech on in 3 years from the version we have in the C-HR.  Power delivery is much smoother and comes in sooner, making the hybrid Corolla a very sporty machine!  If they can adapt the GT86 onto their TNGA platform I imagine a hybrid version could be much fun.  The weight of the batteries though!

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:01 PM, Jay said:

That's one cylinder and about 25% CO2 less. It's not easy to compare NA and turbo engines, as their use and characteristics differ a lot. I'm not advocating one or the other concept, but I'm not sure if I'd like to have a 3-cylinder engine... 🤔

Neither was I but I have recently tried the new ST fiesta and you wouldn't really know it was a 3 cylinder. Certainly have moved on along way since I last drove a 3 cylinder motor. I was pleasantly surprised.

Either way it will be very interesting to see what they do. Sounds like they are moving forwards the ban on new cars been sold with combustion engines to 2035 now so electric will play a part sooner or later too.

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4 hours ago, Subota Boy said:

If they can adapt the GT86 onto their TNGA platform I imagine a hybrid version could be much fun.  The weight of the batteries though!

Don't forget that underneath this is a Subaru platform. Subaru now do boxer hybrids so I expect that this, most likely being produced in the Subaru plant again, will fit the mold better.

Plus TNGA is FWD.

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A common platform like TNGA would be a death sentence for lightweight fun. It wouldn't leave any room to move the centre of gravity. The only RWD TNGA platform is the -N underneath big saloons like the Lexus RC F.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that Toyota builds all its standard range on TNGA bases with a few trusted Toyota engine/hybrid/gearbox combinations, then collaborates to make anything interesting that they can't sell millions of. There was talk of a Porsche collaboration for an MR2, another GT86 with Subaru, the Supra is built by BMW...

I would lay reasonable money on a tuned e-boxer FB20 adaptation. As long as they don't ruin it with a CVT it might work. With some electric support round town, they might even be able to justify a bit more cylinder capacity without breaking the CO2 budget, but it'll be hard to do without an automatic of some kind.

All these emissions controls don't seem to be slowing down the SUV craze 🤨

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Indeed two-a-penny Range Rovers are chav-tastic and travel everywhere fast.  They own the right-hand lane, too.

One wonders how they can afford the fuel, tyres etc.

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Indeed two-a-penny Range Rovers are chav-tastic and travel everywhere fast.  They own the right-hand lane, too.

One wonders how they can afford the fuel, tyres etc.

Benefits for 8 kids and growing weed probably.

 

Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Subota Boy said:

We have a hybrid C-HR with 1.8 engine, and have tested the 2.0 hybrid in the Corolla recently.  Toyota have certainly moved the tech on in 3 years from the version we have in the C-HR.  Power delivery is much smoother and comes in sooner, making the hybrid Corolla a very sporty machine!  If they can adapt the GT86 onto their TNGA platform I imagine a hybrid version could be much fun.  The weight of the batteries though!

The weight of the batteries is one aspect. Another aspect is the continuous variable transmission (CVT), which isn't great for circuit use. Also, when used intensively, the batteries easily run out of power. The concept works best for front wheel driven cars, as most braking power is on those wheels. All wheel drive would be an alternative, but less fun.

My last car was a Prius 3, which I drove for about 100,000 miles. The concept is great for all day use, but don't expect the direct response required for fast lap times, drifting and other fun. The car was extremely reliable and pretty quick from 0 to 50 mph.

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