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vanko25

BBK or better discs/pads

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Hey all,

I recently got the TD turbo kit installed and been enjoying it over the weekends on some local B roads. Car is massive fun but the OEM brakes seem to be letting it down. 

The car still has the OEM brake setup and after 10-15 mins of spirited driving I can feel them fading to the point I need to step off and let them cool down a bit.

So what setup will be better for spirited street driving and the occasional track day? 

Would Stoptech discs+pads be okay or should I consider the Reyland BBK? I don't need a setup that will not fade lap after lap, just brakes that will not fade as quick as the OEM brakes. 

Car is due its 6 year service later on this year which means brake fluid change too so would appreciate if you have advice on a good high boiling temp fluid too. 

 

Thanks and looking forward to your answers. 

 

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Think drop in brakes disc and pads should be sufficient but if you are changing brake fluid, maybe worth getting it changed with some better fluids.

I personally wouldn't go bbk with just street use. Regular tracking then I would.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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I may have imagined it but are Toyota now doing a Brembo set up as an option on new GT86's. If so is it worth a visit to the dealer to see if they can also be fitted to previous models?

Ps, yes dealer costs will be a factor im sure but equally 'factory' options are sometimes preferred by some for a host of reasons 😀

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31 minutes ago, Shippers said:

I may have imagined it but are Toyota now doing a Brembo set up as an option on new GT86's. If so is it worth a visit to the dealer to see if they can also be fitted to previous models?

 

It's not an option, either buy the Blue Edition and spec the performance pack or you can't have it. 

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Upgraded discs and pads will improve things slightly, but that'll all it will do. BBK/Reyland kit is the ultimate answer of course. I was fed up with my brakes fading away on track, went with the Reyland kit and not had that issue again. Endless brakes which is great and very confidence inspiring. 

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If you're cooking up in 15 minutes, a high temp road pad might give you another 3-5 minutes more before you start shredding. You also get better bite when hot, but their cold bite will be less keen. Are you blueing your discs?

Old brake fluid increases spongey feeling, and can cause an inconsistent pedal when hot, but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between that and pad fade in the heat of the action. You could try bleeding a little out of the callipers before your next hoon, to see if there's a little improvement.

The front discs are already vented, so aftermarket discs won't help a lot. Cooling ducts are faffy to fabricate. A lighter (perhaps two-piece) disc will heat up and cool down faster. A BBK usually comes with larger cooling surface AND bigger brake pads too, since they're multi-piston. On the other hand, the BBK can need more maintenance, as it will typically lack the protection for winter grime.

Also, if you defeat the brake heating problem, you might find the next heat issue appears, e.g. oil temp, tyre temp, driver temp... For my money I would get the best pad I can so I don't need exotic spares, and maybe smooth out the driving a bit. Then again... one of the B's in BBK probably stands for Bragging Rights.

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@nerdstrike. Front and rear discs are vented. I don't really understand why say four piston calipers would require more maintenance or be more affected through winter driving than the stock calipers? I don't see what protection they lack?

I would say that BBKs are perhaps the best mod you can do if you track your car or like to hit Alpine passes hard. I don't get the 'bragging' rights bit? 

 

 

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Lauren: IIRC many track oriented BBKs winter issues are mostly due corrosion, as in many countries to thaw ice, salting roads is common. Usually due 1) lacking dustboots, 2) multipiece two-dissimilar-metal disks. Thus due possible issues caused by corrosion more attention should be spent to state of brakes, and, if needed, more often brake/caliper overhaul/rebuild. At very least i'd pressure wash BBK brakes often, if they are on car all year round. But in general even vendors of track BBKs advise against their use during "salted winters", well, at least if they care more about safe & satisfied customers, then making sale no matter what. Another "issue" might be due BBK coming with more track oriented pads in set as stock, and due better cooling and more thermal capacity harder to get enough heat into them, thus worse cold stops, harder to bed & more noise issues, but that i wouldn't blame on BBK, as it's easily fixable with right pad choice and just matter of initial BBK set orientation for specific use.

Of course, not all BBKs are like that. There are also ones with dustboots (that can be burnt off with heavy track use though) and also with single piece rotors. Just bigger/thicker ones.

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Thanks all for the comments, 

 

As I said above the car I plan to the occasional track day but it will be mainly for the fun weekend drive and the summer trip through Europe (if doesn't get complicated after Brexit). 

The only time before I had brake fade was last summer in the Alps but it was 30 degrees and I was torturing the car for 30+ minutes. 

Obviously now with turbo the car gets to speeds much quicker and when braking it puts more stress to the brakes. 

I really like the Reyland kit but just trying to justify to justify spending the money on them. If you ask my gear head me the BBK would be already bought and installed but the sensible me says "you drive the car every other weekend can't you just upgrade the discs/pads and be easy on the brakes" :D

With BBK is there anything to be concerned of? The car won't be driven in the winter but would ideally like to keep OEM reliability rest of the time. I don't see what will be the difference between OEM brake caliper boots and BBK caliper boots but open to hear comments. 

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dustboots are those rubberish rings around pistons in calipers, designed to keep dust/dirt/salt out. Simply some of race-ish BBKs don't have them at all, as they are redundant in heavy race use, due brake temps often rising to temps for them to be burnt off anyway.

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Church 

I see. I didn't realise some of racing calipers don't come with the rubber boots. The CP9200 from the Reyland kit come with rubber boots so shouldn't be an issue. 

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the boots on my stock brakes melted :(

ive just changed to wrx 4 pot calipers on the front with braided lines and pmu ns400 pads also fitted slotted discs

whilst actual braking "force" is a bit less, the caliper and pads/discs should handle heat better :)

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Cars in for a turbo next week, you've got me thinking about getting the Reyland kit sooner rather than later Vanko. How long did it take them to arrive after your order @Lauren? Just wondering if I should get them delivered here or straight to TD.

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There are many race pads that work at high temps with ease. Problem is, they sacrifice low temp use, having worse friction and much harder to bed at normal daily driving on publiic roads within speed limits. And then one joins ranks of poor chaps with loudly squealing brakes at every traffic light everybody looks at 😕, having underperforming brakes when they aren't heated up, and possibly extra wear of rotors. Best bet would be having two pad sets, for DD and for track, and swap those prior/post track day.

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It all point towards a BBK kit then. The car will be going to RRG in April/May for the recall so might as well get Garry to fit the Reyland kit. 

@Adam9 the more I think about it the more it makes sense to upgrade the brakes. I think you have to wait for few weeks for the kit to be assembled I think. 

I am sure @Lauren daily drives the GT86 and does not have issues with cold bite. 

Do anyone know a good place that will be able to paint the calipers in yellow? I quite like Ade's setup in yellow on red car. 

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10 minutes ago, vanko25 said:

It all point towards a BBK kit then. The car will be going to RRG in April/May for the recall so might as well get Garry to fit the Reyland kit. 

@Adam9 the more I think about it the more it makes sense to upgrade the brakes. I think you have to wait for few weeks for the kit to be assembled I think. 

I am sure @Lauren daily drives the GT86 and does not have issues with cold bite. 

Do anyone know a good place that will be able to paint the calipers in yellow? I quite like Ade's setup in yellow on red car. 

https://www.speedyswheels.co.uk/brake-caliper-spray/

Take your heat resistant vinyl sticker and they will stick it along too.

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15 minutes ago, vanko25 said:

@Adam9 the more I think about it the more it makes sense to upgrade the brakes. I think you have to wait for few weeks for the kit to be assembled I think. 

Do anyone know a good place that will be able to paint the calipers in yellow? I quite like Ade's setup in yellow on red car. 

That solves that then, will just get some yellow stuff pads on for now and sort the BBK next month.  Turbo install starts this Saturday. Which also gives me a chance to use....

bcs-automotive.co.uk to paint the calipers.

There's a discount here i ended up getting by contacting them but not buying anything , seems to be a generic link their marketing system pumps out: (its the same company as above)

https://pimpmycalipers.com/brake-caliper-painting-deal01

 

Does anyone know if the AP racing calipers have a raised logo or is it just painted/stencilled on?

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4 hours ago, vanko25 said:

 

With BBK is there anything to be concerned of? The car won't be driven in the winter but would ideally like to keep OEM reliability rest of the time. I don't see what will be the difference between OEM brake caliper boots and BBK caliper boots but open to hear comments. 

Not that I've found, I drive my car every day pretty much and it's been through two winters and over 20K miles since the AP's went on. Seems fine to me. Pretty much fit and forget. Still got loads on the pads reckon they could be good for 40K! 

Another point is that you don't have to run race pads with a BBK. I use DS2500's which work well everywhere whether crawling round the M60 or going for it on track. 

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2 hours ago, Adam9 said:

Cars in for a turbo next week, you've got me thinking about getting the Reyland kit sooner rather than later Vanko. How long did it take them to arrive after your order @Lauren? Just wondering if I should get them delivered here or straight to TD.

IIRC about a week or so. Only weird thing is you have to phone up and pay over the phone which feels very weird these days with no email confirmation! 

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2 hours ago, Church said:

There are many race pads that work at high temps with ease. Problem is, they sacrifice low temp use, having worse friction and much harder to bed at normal daily driving on publiic roads within speed limits. And then one joins ranks of poor chaps with loudly squealing brakes at every traffic light everybody looks at 😕, having underperforming brakes when they aren't heated up, and possibly extra wear of rotors. Best bet would be having two pad sets, for DD and for track, and swap those prior/post track day.

Blimey. You don't need to run race pads, just use DS2500's or similar. Absolutely fine in all conditions. Pointless having two sets of pads and dicking around having to change them. Mine work fine in all temperatures. There is no issues with running the AP four pot Reyland kit whatever you do with it. 

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37 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Blimey. You don't need to run race pads, just use DS2500's or similar. Absolutely fine in all conditions. Pointless having two sets of pads and dicking around having to change them. Mine work fine in all temperatures. There is no issues with running the AP four pot Reyland kit whatever you do with it. 

You've started it now.

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