Jump to content
matrixprotein

2nd Gen GT86

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Leeky said:

I don’t think a mk2 86 makes any sense when a 4-cyl Supra is coming.

You don't know that it is though. Just because it will available in Japan, does not translate to it being available here.  Also a four cylinder Supra is going to be a fair bit above the price point of a GT86, so it's not a replacement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved our car the moment I saw it, and love it more after each modification.  Had it nearly six years and don't expect to sell it until I can't get in it anymore (being an OAP).  If you buy one of these just to keep it for a few years and move on to something else you will likely take a hit.  I will never get back the money for the modifications undertaken, and never expected to, but the joy of this expensive hobby comes at a cost that I am willing to pay. 

The enjoyment I get from just going for a drive in this car is difficult to express in monetary terms.  😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lauren said:

You don't know that it is though. Just because it will available in Japan, does not translate to it being available here.  Also a four cylinder Supra is going to be a fair bit above the price point of a GT86, so it's not a replacement. 

Going by 4-cyl z4 vs 6-cyl z4 prices, i’d expect a 4-cyl Supra to start just over £30k. And an Auto 86 is knocking on the door of £30k.

But yeah, we may not even get the 4 banger in the uk. But if the Japanese do.. i doubt they could justify building another 86.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leeky said:

Going by 4-cyl z4 vs 6-cyl z4 prices, i’d expect a 4-cyl Supra to start just over £30k. And an Auto 86 is knocking on the door of £30k.

But yeah, we may not even get the 4 banger in the uk. But if the Japanese do.. i doubt they could justify building another 86.

Who knows (apart from Toyota) what the future is for the 86 but as I see it they are two very different cars.

Supra a sort of 2 seater luxury sports GT car with electric leather seats and all the creature comforts, a 4 banger just a poverty spec entry car.

GT86 more a back to basics road legal track car (ok needs some readily obtainable mods) designed to appeal to a different sector. Pretty sure you can't get a set of wheels in the back of a Supra. 

As Toyota have registered the trademark GR86 in Europe (applied 18/9/18 - granted 9/1/19) seems likely we will at least get the chance to buy a new Gazoo version in the future even if that is the last variant. Let's be honest, the days of the ICE sports car are numbered due to emission regulations so we have to make the most of what is available and hang on to them as long as we can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Leeky said:

Going by 4-cyl z4 vs 6-cyl z4 prices, i’d expect a 4-cyl Supra to start just over £30k. And an Auto 86 is knocking on the door of £30k.

But yeah, we may not even get the 4 banger in the uk. But if the Japanese do.. i doubt they could justify building another 86.

A Supra for 30k? Not a chance. 

The Supra is in a different market segment not to mention it's strictly a 2 seater. Toyota also mentioned that the Supra is compliment a sports car line up, not replace it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Varelco said:

A Supra for 30k? Not a chance. 

The Supra is in a different market segment not to mention it's strictly a 2 seater. Toyota also mentioned that the Supra is compliment a sports car line up, not replace it.

But who says it’ll actually be called a Supra?

May have a totally different front, back, interior and name.

Dont forget, Supra was just a top spec Celica back in the day.

Most people hear the word “Supra” and instantly think Mk4. Where as I hear “Supra” and think of a mk2/3 Celica with a 6-cyl squeezed in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The GT86 was designed as a <£30k car from the outset. The Supra hasn't been. You can't make it over £20k cheaper just by putting in a smaller engine. If you're talking about changing body panels the cost will get higher rather than lower because you don't have economies of scale. On the other hand, you could (probably) put a more powerful engine in the GT86 and sell it for £40k - which would be closer to the Celica Supra ethos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, spikyone said:

You can't make it over £20k cheaper just by putting in a smaller engine.

Alfa Giulia - £31k

Alfa Giulia QV - £60k

BMW 318i - £28k

BMW M3 - £55k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Leeky said:

But who says it’ll actually be called a Supra?

Toyota's website: https://toyota.jp/new_supra/?padid=ag341_tjptop_mk-acts_new_supra

I reckon we'll see the higher spec B48 here, there would be little to no market for the "base" model especially given the low numbers headed to Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Leeky said:

Alfa Giulia - £31k

Alfa Giulia QV - £60k

BMW 318i - £28k

BMW M3 - £55k

Your comparison are all saloons  that started out cheaper and were made more expensive by a halo model. It's not going to be the other way round. We won't see the 2 litre here, given how few Supras will sell. Tada san always said that there will be a three car line up with the GT86 in the middle. We are awaiting what they are going to do about the S-FR type model. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Your comparison are all saloons  that started out cheaper and were made more expensive by a halo model. It's not going to be the other way round. We won't see the 2 litre here, given how few Supras will sell. Tada san always said that there will be a three car line up with the GT86 in the middle. We are awaiting what they are going to do about the S-FR type model. 

Yep, not to mention that the M3/QV have all sorts of exotic materials and bespoke components that the rest of the 3 series/Giulia range do not, which would not be the case with a downgraded Supra.

Although they’re different brands entirely, the closest comparison I can think of is the F Type coupe. Designed as a £55k coupe, similar to the Supra, and with similar power. The 4-pot version of that is £52k. It has more power than the 4 cyl Supra will, but they’re both 4 cyl turbo and the hardware would not be much different even if they chose to give it 300bhp like the Jag.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lauren said:

Your comparison are all saloons  that started out cheaper and were made more expensive by a halo model.

Actually Alfa designed the QV first and then worked back to the base models. Yes, its not just an engine; there are lots of differences. But the msrp price isnt based entirely on manufacturing costs/profit margins. Its the sales/marketing guys that decide what to price the different models at.

Also you cant compare the F-Type to the Supra. If people are dumb enough to pay that much for a 4-cyl turbo then good luck to them. But there is a hell of a lot of badge going on with the Jag. Toyota cant flog a 4-cyl car based off the Supra for anywhere near to £50k.

In Japan/US the JZA80 with the 3.0 2JZGE was around 10K/25% cheaper than the 3.0 2JZGTE model.

In Japan the JZA70 with the 2.0 1G-GTE was the equivalent of £13k, the 3.0 7MGTE started around £20k and the later 2.5 1JZGTE’s got to nearly £30k.

So what i’m trying so say is that historically the nasp/smaller engined Supra has always been significantly cheaper than the top spec model.

So whilst I agree that this being the first modern supra, built in another country, by another company could mean a difference in market placement and pricing; I’m still expecting this Supra to be priced like Supra’s of the past.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Leeky said:

Also you cant compare the F-Type to the Supra. If people are dumb enough to pay that much for a 4-cyl turbo then good luck to them. But there is a hell of a lot of badge going on with the Jag. Toyota cant flog a 4-cyl car based off the Supra for anywhere near to £50k.

Of course you can. They are both 2 seat, RWD coupes and they're within 5bhp of each other. If there's "badge" in the 4-cyl Jag, there's "badge" in the 6-cyl too, the relative pricing is still relevant. Several journalists have said the 4-cyl Jag is better to drive thanks to the lighter nose, so not dumb at all - and similar money to a 4-cyl Cayman.

Toyota are asking over £50k for the 6-cyl Supra. They might not be able to shift a 4 cylinder for £40-£45k but they'd likely lose money going much cheaper. Selling it at GT86 prices is pie in the sky.

Comparing prices from 25 years ago is even less relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the speculatists! @Leeky

https://www.motor1.com/news/304978/toyota-86-british-green-limited/?fbclid=IwAR0HVGPbtTU66rDaLMnl6vVwLOKqlc5NUiiOItLxjmJdThOiJ3WVyZSF-Ps

 

"

For what it’s worth, Toyota is planning a next-generation 86 which will remain a more affordable sports car than the recently introduced new Supra. As a spokesman for the company in the United States told us, “the 86 has been in the Toyota family since 2013 and the plan is that it will continue to be a part of Toyota’s sports car lineup.” All that’s good but bear in mind we won’t see a new 86, or a Subaru BRZ, before 2021.

 

What better way to keep the current model fresh than offer customers a new special edition of the two-door coupe from Japan. In fact, Japan is the key word here as the new Toyota 86 British Green Limited seems to be limited only to the Land of the Rising Sun – the automaker doesn’t mention its market plans for the vehicle, but all the available information about it comes from the brand's Japanese site.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×