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Willson777

Rotational Squeaking from Discs?

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Hi everyone,

I’m getting squeaking from what I assume is my brakes. 

Its in sync with wheel rotation and disappears turning left but not right. I’ve read it could be a bent brake wear indicator?

I had EBC yellowstuff pads and brand new OEM discs fitted about 2 months ago and have only done about 1000 miles (no tracking or anything heavy at all) so they shouldn’t be worn.

 

any ideas on fixing this? 

Thanks 

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I had this issue, with the OEM pads and discs, resolved by taking out the pads and cleaning them (screwdriver to remove the dust in between the pads), added a decent amount of copper and silicone grease and bedded them as soon as I was able to. They've now stopped squeaking loudly and do squeak really quietly.

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What caused the squeaking for me was a 1.5mm deep hole that has suddenly appeared in my new Mintex disc and it was hitting the brake pad in sync with rotation. Lessons learned Mintex discs are shit.

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Don’t use copper grease. Use proper disc brake grease like cera-tec. The repair manual states “Lithium Soap Base Glycol Grease”

If you buy the bush and shin kit from toyota it comes with the grease you need to use.

I’ve always found copper grease attracts dirt and can harden over time. Not recommended for abs either I think.

01241c9cebbcf934c29c438fb2dde2e4.jpg

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Interesting as mine has developed a constant squeal occasionally which disappears when you dab the brakes. So it is certainly from the pads rubbing. I know all sliding caliper pads rub but I am now unsure if mine are rubbing more then normal and if something has begun to stick. Think I will strip them down and have a look.

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If it rubs too much you can tell, if eg. some wheel is too hot to touch vs others after some driving, even if braking was too light and it should have been cooled off. Of course, worth touching wheel, not brake disk/caliper (which sometimes might be hot enough to seriously burn hand), and also one can dirty hands with brake dust :). Constant too much of brake pad drag should result in much hotter wheel.

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The shims that the pads sit in get dirty and cause the inner pad to stick.

I’ve just changed the discs and pads all round, and the insides of the discs had uneven wear.

It’s worth cleaning the shims but if the inside of the disc is uneven it may not make much difference .

This is one of the shims I took out of the rear callipers yesterday 1105c010bbca98b5f4f69c94caf6c84b.jpg


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43 minutes ago, Church said:

If it rubs too much you can tell, if eg. some wheel is too hot to touch vs others after some driving, even if braking was too light and it should have been cooled off. Of course, worth touching wheel, not brake disk/caliper (which sometimes might be hot enough to seriously burn hand), and also one can dirty hands with brake dust :). Constant too much of brake pad drag should result in much hotter wheel.

Already checked that and there is non of those symptoms to note. think its just the new track based pads I have fitted are very noisy so I now notice it and I didn't before.

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10 minutes ago, KAS said:

The shims that the pads sit in get dirty and cause the inner pad to stick.

I’ve just changed the discs and pads all round, and the insides of the discs had uneven wear.

It’s worth cleaning the shims but if the inside of the disc is uneven it may not make much difference .

This is one of the shims I took out of the rear callipers yesterday 1105c010bbca98b5f4f69c94caf6c84b.jpg

 

 

 

good Tip I cleaned mine out when I fitted my new disks and pads last week also. I also filed the edges of the pads slightly as they were a bit of a tight fit at first.

Only thing I can think of is that these new pads are a lot noisier then the old ones so maybe its only now I notice the noise plus I am driving with the window open as its nice weather haha.

A bit unrelated but the original pads came with a metal backing plate that I always transfer onto new pads. Is this essential or could I bin them off? As I think  these slightly contribute to the noise if I am honest....

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Yeah, more then advisable to clean shims, calipers under them and apply grease anew. Pads should fit snug, and imho shouldn't be filed, as that may introduce extra rattling. If they are hard to put in, most probably exactly because of excess dust/dirt/crap/rust in these shims (or between these shims & caliper), where pad "ears" go. If one changes pads by themselves, worth having brake cleaner spray, wire brush, and greases for guides and these shims. Optionally depending on state maybe also rubber seal sets (front SU003-04523, rear SU003-04098). BTW, if clips are of state that easier to replace them, part numbers: front SU003-00577, rear SU003-00627. When changing pads, worth checking, how easy or not caliper slides on guides. If needed, one may regrease them aswell, sometimes another possible reason for dragging of pads.

Regarding what should be transferred over/reused, usually it's just these shims/clips that stay in caliper, that are in your pic. For pads that have also backing plate shims, those shims usually come in set with pads. Many aftermarket pads don't have backing plate shims and also don't need them to be transferred over from old stock pads.

Regarding noise, if it's loud squealing .. usually it's because unbedded rotors. With well bedded brakes (that is material from heated up pads transferred/rubbed as layer onto disks) most pads usually are relatively quiet. Then again more track oriented pads with daily driving braking rarely get upto high enough temps, and even if brakes got bedded on trackday, few days of daily driving later, bedded layer is worn off, and squealing returns 😕

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You shouldn't really have to file the pads themselves.  The caliper carrier contact points should be filed down to clean metal and all brake dust and crud cleaned off. 

 

The shims that the pads sit in are non re-usable parts and are supposed to be changed when the pads are changed.  They're a jip from Toyota if you buy them separately, but I think they come as part of a caliper rebuild kit that also comes with new rubber boots for the slider pins, new piston seals, and grease - its £20 for the pack but I dunno if that was per axel or per caliper..

 

The caliper carrier bolts have to be renewed as well when changing the discs, they cost me about £20 for 8 bolts from Toyota.  You also need to renew the bush on the lower slider pin on each of the calipers, as well as cleaning and re-greasing the pins and fitting new boots.

 

If any of the above is missed it can cause sticking etc.

 

The metal backing plates are "supposed" to be anti squeal shims lol with another shim in between those and the pad.  You need to put grease between the pad and the backing plate according to the repair manual.  I got new thinner metal backing plates/shims with my EBS Yellowstuff pads so I used them instead.

 

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1 hour ago, KAS said:

The shims that the pads sit in are non re-usable parts and are supposed to be changed when the pads are changed.  They're a jip from Toyota if you buy them separately, but I think they come as part of a caliper rebuild kit that also comes with new rubber boots for the slider pins, new piston seals, and grease - its £20 for the pack but I dunno if that was per axel or per caliper..

Not so regarding rebuild kits. See part numbers for my previous post. Repair kits include only rubber bits, like those "cylinder slide bushes" around guides, piston dustboots and such, and those kits are per axle. No tin shims in those kits.

Separate part numbers for end shims, but IIRC cover shims and shims between those and pads from scheme in next post are included in set of stock brake pads (i never bought another OE pad set, so not 100% sure, once stockers were done, next set were DS2500 w/o those). Some aftermarket pads also include such in set. When i asked more experienced guys if i should try to reuse them for some track pad sets w/o those, they said no. Just "brake pad support plates" shims.

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You’re right about the kit church, it’s doesn’t include the pad support plates - my mistake!

I bought a kit from eBay which came with new boots for the sliders and new grease but had to send them back because they were for non vented discs. Annoying!

Looks like I may have to pay toyota prices for new plates and boots

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Mine (stock) where squeaking before I replaced the discs and pads. The old pads and calipers were so clogged with brake dust, it took several minutes of hitting the pads with a hammer to remove them from the calipers. They clearly weren’t retracting from the discs causing the squeaking. 

When I replaced the discs / pads, the OEM Toyota pad kits came with copper grease, which I applied to back of pads, and pad/caliper contact points. I’ve had no noise since. I can imagine the grease will get clogged again over time but good so far.

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1 hour ago, KAS said:

You’re right about the kit church, it’s doesn’t include the pad support plates - my mistake!

I bought a kit from eBay which came with new boots for the sliders and new grease but had to send them back because they were for non vented discs. Annoying!

Looks like I may have to pay toyota prices for new plates and boots emoji24.png

I used the official Toyota store on eBay.

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1 hour ago, KAS said:

Actual copper grease? Hope you didn’t use it on the slider pins!

What else did you get in the kit? Was it just the rubber boots and seals?

Didn’t know toyota even had an eBay store lol.

https://mintex.com/copper-slip-vs-ceratec/?lang=en-gbr

Yeah, both front and rear pads came with a small sachet of copper grease. Didn’t apply it to the pins. The pads came with shims, the plates that clip into the calipers (not sure what they’re called) and copper grease. No rubber boots or seals in the kit.

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OEM part numbers (my car is a 2016)
Front Pads (Axle Set – Both sides): SU003-04324
From Discs (Single I think): SU003-00586
Rear Pads (Axle Set – Both sides): SU003-04325
Rear Discs (Single I think): SU003-00638

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22 hours ago, KAS said:

You shouldn't really have to file the pads themselves.  The caliper carrier contact points should be filed down to clean metal and all brake dust and crud cleaned off. 

 

The shims that the pads sit in are non re-usable parts and are supposed to be changed when the pads are changed.  They're a jip from Toyota if you buy them separately, but I think they come as part of a caliper rebuild kit that also comes with new rubber boots for the slider pins, new piston seals, and grease - its £20 for the pack but I dunno if that was per axel or per caliper..

 

The caliper carrier bolts have to be renewed as well when changing the discs, they cost me about £20 for 8 bolts from Toyota.  You also need to renew the bush on the lower slider pin on each of the calipers, as well as cleaning and re-greasing the pins and fitting new boots.

 

If any of the above is missed it can cause sticking etc.

 

The metal backing plates are "supposed" to be anti squeal shims lol with another shim in between those and the pad.  You need to put grease between the pad and the backing plate according to the repair manual.  I got new thinner metal backing plates/shims with my EBS Yellowstuff pads so I used them instead.

 

OEM Toyota pads and pagid are the only ones I have even used that didn't need filing down a little. I am not talking about taking loads off just a little to make them slide better.

 

Didn't know things like the hub to carrier bolts were single use. I have always reused them.

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The parts guy at toyota said he never sells them so I doubt many people actually do renew them bolts.

I’m sure my PFC or EBC pads instructions said not to file the pads, and to file the carrier instead. But I know what you mean, the paint isn’t exactly uniform on the pads.

Last time I tried to stops the squeaks, I had to file the stock pads to stop them from sticking coz rust had bubbled up under the paint. All fun and games lol

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On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 PM, KAS said:

You shouldn't really have to file the pads themselves.  The caliper carrier contact points should be filed down to clean metal and all brake dust and crud cleaned off. 

 

 

That's very true unless you get Cosworth Streetmasters which have shitty manufacturing tolerances and one of the pads would not fit no matter what for me. Even when everything got cleaned to almost "as new" condition. So your mileage may vary. Never had issues with EBC, Pagid or PFC pads - so fuck Cosworth. Am I allowed to say "fuck" ? 

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On 7/25/2019 at 6:20 PM, KAS said:



Looks like I may have to pay toyota prices for new plates and boots emoji24.png

Pagid pads come with the 'support shims'

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