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chrisrussell

What supercharger? (Maybe turbo)

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First of all, I know this has been discussed several times, however more so looking to see the outcomes of peoples cars in recent years with different kits, or the new versions of the kits?

Long story short I want to supercharge the car to 280-300 bhp. Nothing more than this number as then you have to change a lot of components in the engine. I was pretty much set on the HKS supercharger then came across a few people in america talking about reliability issues. Seems to be it will only reach 10,000 miles and pop goes the supercharger.

So looking for opinions of people who have either looked into it as well, or have actually had the car supercharged (Either by the HKS or any other manufacturer) in the more recent years.

I've mentioned turbo as well just to see if people more so recommend this. Im not chasing top line BHP, nor do I want a sudden input of power at 4/5000rpm hence why I think the supercharger is a better option for the car. Just essentially looking for more power across the whole spectrum.

Anyway, as I say, looking for opinions and peoples experiences with somehow getting more power?

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Believe the HKS supercharger has a design flaw that causes it to 'go pop' as you say so I would stay away! (However I might be confusing this with another so open to being corrected)

I'm sure 99% of people on here - myself included - would recommend the Tuning Developments turbo kit. It has been covered extensively on here for good reason, so I won't go into detail on what it consists of. Getting to your goal of ~280bhp it should be perfect. Give Mike a ring and I'm sure he'll be happy to talk you through it, they're top guys, or have a quick search through the forums.

Good luck in your search. 

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Have had my Harrow for over two years now and can,t rate it highly enough. Give the car really good linear power and makes it great to drive on the road. Mine was mapped at 252 bhp at the rear wheels. All done by Mark at Abbey.

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I have Tuning Developments turbo kit. Just over 280hp.

Nearly 6mth, 3.5k miles and 4 track days later still love the gentle whoosh you get when going over 3k on rev counter.

I actually like a lot that in normal daily/ city driving its tame and quiet (mine is also super res), going on motorway or a nice empty country road you can play a bit and then you get a LOT more fun on track (or M6 toll).

Some prefer more linear power delivery of a supercharger, some think turbo gives a better option of going over 280-300 hp with further mods (both Fensport and Tuning Developments have stages 2+ onwards for even more hps), I would say try both. On a typical club meet you would see few options, we had both t/c and s/c cars on recent club track day at Bedford.

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Thanks everyone for all the replies. Definitely seems like the turbo is the preferred option within the chat when it comes to forced induction.

The only reason I was worried about the turbo vs supercharger is about how the engine is built. Its essentially two engine parts clamped together and I was told this can cause issues if the PSI of the forced induction were to spike for any reason. With the supercharger you get the same linear PSI whereas with the Turbo, potentially it could spike high randomly and split the engine block.

In reply to James18. From what I hear about the HKS, its something to do with the bearing mount for the fan housing. Apparently the metal is weak around this area and eventually the threads end up stripping, therefore it stops sucking the air in (Or something like that). The thing is my local modifying garage as fitted three HKS superchargers to GT86s and every one has went really well and worked as expected. However these were all done within the last 6 months so its hard to determine the reliability side of it.

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Don't worry, the con rods will explode through the block before the bolts holding the block together stretch. The point still stands though - peak boost must be carefully managed particularly at the low end.

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My HKS supercharger failed in the same way as the ones on the USA forum. Customer service is non-existant. Avoid when there are many other tried and tested options with no horror stories attached. Of course many have had no issues - but when you look at he design it does seem to be hugely flawed, and I notice HKS are now supplying a turbo kit!

It was amazing when it worked though. Made the car feel ridiculously light and fast, although the bottom/mid end is lacking compared to a turbo, which with the looooong gearing of the GT86 was sometimes an issue on country roads. My heavier, lower-powered previous car with a turbo delivered much more usable performance for overtaking and low-mid speed fun.

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1 hour ago, VAD17 said:

TD even has an Black Friday offer right now emoji23.png

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I know right, absolute bargain tbf! Wish I'd of waited now lol! 

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TD definitely get rated highly by you guys which is always a good sign. Only issue with myself is I live several hundreds of miles away haha.

Thanks for all the replies as well.

Kadaver - Do you have the stage 1 turbo yourself? If you do I take it you recommend it and secondly what kind of BHP are you looking at?

Im not totally against turbo, in fact I prefer the noise and bangs haha! My only worry is like I said, other items in the engine going pop and from what ive been told, a supercharger is the easiest way to mitigate this. Plus I like the idea of low down power rather than slamming it at 4000rpm before it decides to work haha.

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50 minutes ago, chrisrussell said:

My only worry is like I said, other items in the engine going pop and from what ive been told, a supercharger is the easiest way to mitigate this. Plus I like the idea of low down power rather than slamming it at 4000rpm before it decides to work haha.

How it comes on boost is all down to specifying the right turbo. Most modern turbos aren't laggy unless you spec something huge. If you want to be 100% safe, don't put a SC or TC on the car.

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Yeah that's a very valid point. The safest way is to not turbo or supercharge the engine.....but its just so appealing haha. Its more trying to look for the safest way of doing it.

Chatting to my local mechanic he was explaining its more of an issue on this engine due to the fact its built in two sections essentially. Because its the flat 4, its built with a join right down the middle of the engine black rather than it being a soild engine block like most cars. Obviously when you build something in two parts and then join them, thats the weakest spot. When he was talking to me about this I was wandering around his shop when he stops and points at an engine on the floor, followed by him saying "do you recognise that engine". A GT86 2.0 litre engine with a crack right down the middle which was caused by a spike in the turbo PSI. Now I have no idea where the turbo was installed before it ended up in his shop to "repair" or what mapping it had, but since then im a little more hesitant. Car only has 10,000 miles on it so I dont want to explode the engine at 15,000.

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2 minutes ago, chrisrussell said:

Chatting to my local mechanic he was explaining its more of an issue on this engine due to the fact its built in two sections essentially. Because its the flat 4, its built with a join right down the middle of the engine black rather than it being a soild engine block like most cars. Obviously when you build something in two parts and then join them, thats the weakest spot. When he was talking to me about this I was wandering around his shop when he stops and points at an engine on the floor, followed by him saying "do you recognise that engine". A GT86 2.0 litre engine with a crack right down the middle which was caused by a spike in the turbo PSI. Now I have no idea where the turbo was installed before it ended up in his shop to "repair" or what mapping it had, but since then im a little more hesitant. Car only has 10,000 miles on it so I dont want to explode the engine at 15,000.

Well that's the 1st I've heard of that happening, I call BS. It'd also be rather hard to happen. Far more likely to blow a head off or the rod will break and blow a hole in the block; but you're not going to separate the block and definitely not on something with low boost. Plus you can build boost protection in with EcuTek to prevent those kind of events from happening.

Just an FYI but this is a stock FA20 block,notice the "crack" ;)

EJ25Block.jpg

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12 hours ago, chrisrussell said:

TD definitely get rated highly by you guys which is always a good sign. Only issue with myself is I live several hundreds of miles away haha.

Thanks for all the replies as well.

Kadaver - Do you have the stage 1 turbo yourself? If you do I take it you recommend it and secondly what kind of BHP are you looking at?

Im not totally against turbo, in fact I prefer the noise and bangs haha! My only worry is like I said, other items in the engine going pop and from what ive been told, a supercharger is the easiest way to mitigate this. Plus I like the idea of low down power rather than slamming it at 4000rpm before it decides to work haha.

Yeah I've got the stage 1 kit, im running just over 280. To be honest, its personal preference on how you prefer the power being delivered.

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20 hours ago, Adamd said:

My HKS supercharger failed in the same way as the ones on the USA forum. Customer service is non-existant. Avoid when there are many other tried and tested options with no horror stories attached. Of course many have had no issues - but when you look at he design it does seem to be hugely flawed, and I notice HKS are now supplying a turbo kit!

It was amazing when it worked though. Made the car feel ridiculously light and fast, although the bottom/mid end is lacking compared to a turbo, which with the looooong gearing of the GT86 was sometimes an issue on country roads. My heavier, lower-powered previous car with a turbo delivered much more usable performance for overtaking and low-mid speed fun.

Non exsistent customer servcie @Adamd Yes HKS had an issue and was looking after people. We helped you out as much as possible

 

The are still making a SC kit as we as the turbo kit.

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1 hour ago, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

Non exsistent customer servcie @Adamd Yes HKS had an issue and was looking after people. We helped you out as much as possible

 

The are still making a SC kit as we as the turbo kit.

You were great @Mark@Abbey M/S even though I was not your customer you helped me to diagnose which you had no obligation to do (the kit was fitted by a prior owner).

I was refering to HKS - they don't even reply to enquiries and their best offer to people in USA with the same failure was to rebuild the SC kit but at a very high cost. They are still making the SC kit despite repeated failures and what seems to be a flawed design, yes. Again - I realise many have not had issues but I would recommend avoiding them due to the above issues that do not seem to apply to other options.

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3 minutes ago, Adamd said:

You were great @Mark@Abbey M/S even though I was not your customer you helped me to diagnose which you had no obligation to do (the kit was fitted by a prior owner).

I was refering to HKS - they don't even reply to enquiries and their best offer to people in USA with the same failure was to rebuild the SC kit but at a very high cost. They are still making the SC kit despite repeated failures and what seems to be a flawed design, yes. Again - I realise many have not had issues but I would recommend avoiding them due to the above issues that do not seem to apply to other options.

They have updated the Part number as they have changed the design.

 

Strange things the 350Z uses the same SC unit and we have never had one fail on a 350Z.

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Just now, Mark@Abbey M/S said:

They have updated the Part number as they have changed the design.

 

Interesting.

Shame they don't accept the responsibility for their flawed design then. The decent thing would be to offer the revised replacement unit at cost price. Or, at a  minimum reply to enquiries! The USA thread is full of awful examples of their customer service - if I remember correctly "HKS USA" closed down and reopened under new oenership at one point.

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I have Tuning Developments turbo kit. Just over 280hp.

Nearly 6mth, 3.5k miles and 4 track days later still love the gentle whoosh you get when going over 3k on rev counter.

I actually like a lot that in normal daily/ city driving its tame and quiet (mine is also super res), going on motorway or a nice empty country road you can play a bit and then you get a LOT more fun on track (or M6 toll).

Some prefer more linear power delivery of a supercharger, some think turbo gives a better option of going over 280-300 hp with further mods (both Fensport and Tuning Developments have stages 2+ onwards for even more hps), I would say try both. On a typical club meet you would see few options, we had both t/c and s/c cars on recent club track day at Bedford.

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No speed limit on M6 toll , or just empty?


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