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Lauren

Recall issued on cars to have valve springs replaced 2012-2013

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50 minutes ago, Lloyd said:

I had my car booked in for the recall back in May but it was cancelled due to the Covid lockdown.

I just received my letter from Toyota on Saturday to say my car was due the recall so I contacted Charles Hurst Toyota Belfast who wanted to charge me £20 a day for a rental car as they do not offer loan cars (due to covid) anymore. No thank you. 

Phoned Curtis Toyota Ballymena, happy to provide loan car but was unsure if the recall campaign was still suspended or not. I'm awaiting a phone call to confirm.

I then contacted the Toyota Recall administration line, the 0800 044 3723 number. She wasn't sure if the campaign was active or not but more concerning was a little piece of information she gave about the length of time they allow for the recall. Two days. 

Two days warranty time is apparently what Toyota are giving their Techs to remove and replace an entire engine that most are not very familiar with. In a previous life I was a Service Advisor so knowing warranty job times I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was cut to the bone. I'm guessing that giving them such a short turnaround time is probably a contributing factor in the worrying amount of engine failures and other associated issues that I've just been reading about here and the FRS forum. I could fully understand if it was an engine that they were familiar with and comfortable working around but as it's such a departure from every other engine there would be a certain learning curve to working on these, never mind a full R&R job. 

I'm seriously considering leaving the recall procedure as it seems to have a higher failure rate than the actual springs that they're supposed to fix. What is the general consensus about the recall? Go ahead or leave it? 

It seems the dealers are happy to walk away from engine failures and issues as unconnected to the recall procedure when it does go Pete Tong. I guess they don't want to eat the cost of a new engine if it can't be 100% proved they were at fault. 

Two days piece of cake what could possibly go wrong 😢

 

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7 hours ago, Lloyd said:

the worrying amount of engine failures and other associated issues that I've just been reading about here and the FRS forum.

Have I missed all of these?!

I would choose a dealership that has done a few, absolutely. But I'd 100% get it done. As I did, and did.

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48 minutes ago, Adamd said:

Have I missed all of these?!

I would choose a dealership that has done a few, absolutely. But I'd 100% get it done. As I did, and did.

I don't think I'll bother with the recall. I just get the impression that the dealers in my area are just not interested - as soon as they hear its the valve spring recall it's always a case of " Well check and see... We'll call you back... " they never do. 

Reading here and on the other GT86/FRS forums it does seem that some people are coming away with problems with their cars that were never there before, some minor but some complete failures too and the dealers are walking away from them. 

I found this article from the states where a customer has launched a class action lawsuit against Toyota as they've ruined so many cars performing the recall “repair”. Read it here: 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/scion-fr-s-subaru-brz-owners-say-valve-spring-recall-fix-is-destroying-their-engines

There's one PDF document I've uploaded that shows the complexity of the work and the potential problems that can occur, something as simple as a few crumbs of RTV sealant getting into an oil galley can cause oil starvation and destroy the engine. 

Toyota are only paying for 14 hours as far as I am aware so it doesn't incentivise the technician to do a thorough and careful job.

The process in a very simplified nutshell is something like this - Strip down and remove entire engine, front timing chain cover off, remove every trace of old sealant ensuring none falls inside engine, replace sixteen valves, reseal timing cover with a very very precise bead in the exact places, reinstall and rebuild engine bay... All on a boxer engine that you're not very familiar with and you only get paid 14 hours warranty rate, any longer and your working for free. 

From what I've gathered from reading online, there has only been 70 documented failures of the actual valve springs. I think I'll take my chances for now as the chances of getting my car back in perfect working order without some future issues, niggles or a blown engine at this moment seem to be pretty low. 

RCRIT-18V772-6522.pdf

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@Lloyd There were a high number of failures in the US. TGB along with help from RRG Macc heavily revised the recall procedures to prevent what happened in the US happening here. Up you but if you purposefully leave it and it does fail then you will not be covered. Mine was done 27,000 miles ago. No problems. 

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11 hours ago, Lloyd said:

I don't think I'll bother with the recall. I just get the impression that the dealers in my area are just not interested - as soon as they hear its the valve spring recall it's always a case of " Well check and see... We'll call you back... " they never do.

Well yes, it's advised to choose somewhere which has experience of doing the recall. Sounds like your uncertainty has stopped you booking it in.

Seems you've made your mind up, not sure why you even asked the questions. Hope your valve springs hold on my dude!

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Finally phoned up and have got my car booked in to Beadles Medway on the 14th. 

Been a bit worried and had a few concerns, but the girl on the phone gave me the details of the service manager, so I sent him an email asking about including servicing, clutch, spark plugs, etc, as well as informing him about my modifications. I also thought I'd be blunt and ask about how many recalls they'd done due to the issues other owners have been having. He phoned me back within 30 minutes and we've just had a chat about it. They've done between 10-20 recalls he said, and so far, only a couple of cars have come back for minor oil leaks and such - no catastrophic failures for any cars they've worked on. Which has put my mind at ease a bit.

Should be getting a full service and new spark plugs at the same time. I've enquired about a clutch, but I am going to let him know, as I'm considering whether it's worth going for an aftermarket replacement. I don't plan of adding any more power, but I've been told putting in an Exedy clutch would be a good upgrade. Any opinions would be welcome - I don't want to do anything that will feel any different.

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Mine's currently in at Yeoman's Eastbourne. Master Tech took it out for a spin and then spent some time discussing the supercharger installation and how he'd do it. I got a video this morning with recommendations for a new clutch and release bearing, I knew it was a bit noisy so decided to go for it anyway.

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Mine's currently in at Yeoman's Eastbourne. Master Tech took it out for a spin and then spent some time discussing the supercharger installation and how he'd do it. I got a video this morning with recommendations for a new clutch and release bearing, I knew it was a bit noisy so decided to go for it anyway.
Will you be getting a clutch upgrade like Conscript is thinking of? I believe in later OE clutch the release bearing and clutch fork were improved.

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Finally phoned up and have got my car booked in to Beadles Medway on the 14th. 
Been a bit worried and had a few concerns, but the girl on the phone gave me the details of the service manager, so I sent him an email asking about including servicing, clutch, spark plugs, etc, as well as informing him about my modifications. I also thought I'd be blunt and ask about how many recalls they'd done due to the issues other owners have been having. He phoned me back within 30 minutes and we've just had a chat about it. They've done between 10-20 recalls he said, and so far, only a couple of cars have come back for minor oil leaks and such - no catastrophic failures for any cars they've worked on. Which has put my mind at ease a bit.
Should be getting a full service and new spark plugs at the same time. I've enquired about a clutch, but I am going to let him know, as I'm considering whether it's worth going for an aftermarket replacement. I don't plan of adding any more power, but I've been told putting in an Exedy clutch would be a good upgrade. Any opinions would be welcome - I don't want to do anything that will feel any different.
If you do not plan to go forced induction, I wouldn't suggest an aftermarket clutch as the OE one can easily handle the NA mods torque. Any aftermarket clutch will make the pedal feel heavier.

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Well, not any, i guess some might be OE replacements similar to stock one, but yeah, as in most cases one buys aftermarket clutch to handle higher torque w/o slipping, most of them are also stiffer to press/use and more PITA for daily use in city stop-and-go traffic jam traffic and some also add extra noises/chatter.

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As per my reply on the other forum....for some reason I had it in my head that Exedy did an aftermarket clutch which was cheaper (or at least, no more expensive) than the OEM one, which is why I thought it might be a no-brainer. But I was wrong - so an OEM should be fine.

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Even if you don't intend to keep car, it would be nice touch to replace at least TOB. It's cheap, immensely cheap relative to cost of work to drop transmission for it's replacement.

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56 minutes ago, Church said:

Even if you don't intend to keep car, it would be nice touch to replace at least TOB. It's cheap, immensely cheap relative to cost of work to drop transmission for it's replacement.

Indeed. I know the TOB seems to be a weak point on these cars; mines a little noisy at most, but it would be nice to have a fresh one installed.

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On 11/3/2020 at 7:09 AM, Lauren said:

@Lloyd There were a high number of failures in the US. TGB along with help from RRG Macc heavily revised the recall procedures to prevent what happened in the US happening here. Up you but if you purposefully leave it and it does fail then you will not be covered. Mine was done 27,000 miles ago. No problems. 

@Lauren It is my car that Gary at RRG Macclesfield has been providing tech support and assistance for the last three weeks... The one in Northern Ireland. 

Understandably I'm not going to say too much on here but the car has came back with a few issues but I'm confident that they will be resolved soon.

I just want to be in possession of the full information so could you ask Gary to confirm that it was a misalignment of the crankshaft position disc was responsible for the misfire? Any other information would be greatly appreciated. 

Also, is the bonnet removed? Or does he know if it was removed when the recall work was performed?

 Thanks Lauren

 

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4 hours ago, Lloyd said:

@Lauren It is my car that Gary at RRG Macclesfield has been providing tech support and assistance for the last three weeks... The one in Northern Ireland. 

Understandably I'm not going to say too much on here but the car has came back with a few issues but I'm confident that they will be resolved soon.

I just want to be in possession of the full information so could you ask Gary to confirm that it was a misalignment of the crankshaft position disc was responsible for the misfire? Any other information would be greatly appreciated. 

Also, is the bonnet removed? Or does he know if it was removed when the recall work was performed?

 Thanks Lauren

 

Hi Lloyd. As I"m sure you can understand, it is not for me to ask Gary about your issue. I'm pretty sure the bonnet would be removed. Good luck with it, but it would not be appropriate for met to get involved. 

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Cross-posting from other forum...

Picked up the car today. Recall done, plus full service, spark plugs and a new clutch. Cant say the engine feels or sounds any different, perhaps a tad smoother.
New clutch feels good - same pedal weight, but engages a bit better now. I was convinced on the way home that something was wrong with it, but it was just a consequence of having just climbed out of the courtesy Yaris. They also tightened the handbrake a bit, which was handy. It had been a little slack since I did the rear bearings and I intended to take a look at it at some point, so that's one job I don't have to bother with now :)

No problems so far. I'll be driving up to my parents at Christmas, which is a couple of hundred miles, so that should highlight any issues.

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Spoke too soon. Although the engine sounds fine, I had to pop to the supermarket earlier. It's one of those car parks with the aggressive bolt down speed bumps...the kind you have to crawl over as if you're mounting a kerb. As I did, the I noticed a distinct noise coming from the front suspension, a kind of squelchy clonking noise...not metallic though. It definitely wasn't there before going in for the recall.

Anyone know what suspension parts might have been affected by the recall? I think they remove the anti-roll bar and the drop links, but it's not that kind of sharp clonking noise. Sounds like something's loose. Engine mount maybe? But then, the car still feels fine, I thought a loose mount might have resulted in vibration.

I'll have to ring the dealer in the morning, but I guess it won't be dealt with until after Christmas. How annoying 😕

EDIT: Was on the very verge of ringing the dealer this morning, but before I did, I thought I'd check the wheel nuts (they were fine) and take the car for a quick run and replicate the noise again. Went over several speed bumps, and....nothing. Noise seems to have disappeared. So not sure what the hell caused it. So I'll just keep an eye on it and see if it reoccurs. Cars 😕

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14 hours ago, Conscript said:

Spoke too soon. Although the engine sounds fine, I had to pop to the supermarket earlier. It's one of those car parks with the aggressive bolt down speed bumps...the kind you have to crawl over as if you're mounting a kerb. As I did, the I noticed a distinct noise coming from the front suspension, a kind of squelchy clonking noise...not metallic though. It definitely wasn't there before going in for the recall.

Anyone know what suspension parts might have been affected by the recall? I think they remove the anti-roll bar and the drop links, but it's not that kind of sharp clonking noise. Sounds like something's loose. Engine mount maybe? But then, the car still feels fine, I thought a loose mount might have resulted in vibration.

I'll have to ring the dealer in the morning, but I guess it won't be dealt with until after Christmas. How annoying 😕

EDIT: Was on the very verge of ringing the dealer this morning, but before I did, I thought I'd check the wheel nuts (they were fine) and take the car for a quick run and replicate the noise again. Went over several speed bumps, and....nothing. Noise seems to have disappeared. So not sure what the hell caused it. So I'll just keep an eye on it and see if it reoccurs. Cars 😕

Those kind of speed bumps are the ones bolted to the ground right? Could be the noise was a loose speedbump/puddle combo?

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1 hour ago, Kaltorak said:

Those kind of speed bumps are the ones bolted to the ground right? Could be the noise was a loose speedbump/puddle combo?

They are, but I went over several of them in the car park, all sounded the same. On the way home, I purposefully drove up a road near my house which has normal speed bumps, and it sounded similar. But I took it along the same road this morning to confirm, and it sounded fine. 

Car feels totally fine otherwise, so I'm just gonna have to keep an ear cocked and hope it was a one off or something.

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I saw a post on the facebook group by the chap that has had a valve spring fail. Abbey motorsport have confirmed it was one of the later batch of "new" springs that has failed.

Hope we are not going to find there is still a fault, wonder if anyone else has had an issue with the new springs?

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2 hours ago, gavin_t said:

I saw a post on the facebook group by the chap that has had a valve spring fail. Abbey motorsport have confirmed it was one of the later batch of "new" springs that has failed.

Hope we are not going to find there is still a fault, wonder if anyone else has had an issue with the new springs?

I've just been reading that thread, but it seems like in one of the latest responses (last 30 mins or so), it's been confirmed that the springs which failed were from the original faulty batch, not the replacements being placed in cars under the recall. Or have I misread?

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23 hours ago, Conscript said:

I've just been reading that thread, but it seems like in one of the latest responses (last 30 mins or so), it's been confirmed that the springs which failed were from the original faulty batch, not the replacements being placed in cars under the recall. Or have I misread?

I will recheck the latest comments. When I asked about the springs he said mark at abbey had ID them as the old springs and quoted the part number.

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