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Flat battery - locked out - BROKE key

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Thanks @VAD17  I've been at it three times now, used some rubber gloves for more grip and to make it less frustrating.  Very concerned about snapping the key off.  I'll go back to it again later.  I've also ordered some more GT85 as am missing the nozzle so only used it on the key itself so far, not sprayed inside which I hope could help.

I do already have the larger 65ah version.  I saw the alarm light was still on this weekend, so frustrating to have missed the battery dying by a day or two to now experience this.  I'd thought it wouldn't be too bigger issue having used the physical key before and knowing I could jump start it.

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You have to throw the lock and push back whatever motor drives central locking, so I'm not surprised it's difficult on a good day with so little leverage. Conventional keys have double the handle width and it's double sided, so you can put 4x the torque down the key. Frankly our emergency keys are poo.

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1 hour ago, cts said:

Hi all,

First off, I hope everyone is doing as OK as possible during this odd time we're all going through.  It puts car issues into perspective to a degree, but the one I face today is seeming rather frustrating (and you can guess by the thread I'm adding to!).

Long story short - I'm locked out of my 86, dead battery and no joy with the physical keys (I have both).  Potentially more worryingly in the past (September 2018) I've had success with one of the physical keys when just my key fob battery died.

I have tried with some GT85/WD40 and turned the key back and forth for ~20 minutes now - no joy.  Any specific technique/extra detail that those who had success applied here - @Chess010, @Cerastes, @maurice ?  I can turn it both ways which I'm not sure is more worrying that it just being stiff and not moving. 

The key turns further right/clockwise (which I understand from this thread would be to lock) than the distance it moves left/anticlockwise which I understand would be to unclock) - is that in line with what could be curren expectations suggesting it needs a bit more force to turn further anticlockwise?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

I found that you just have to keep persevering lubricate by squirting wd40 into lock by letting it dribble down from the key and then keep on wiggling key fractionally clockwise and anti-clockwise it may take 15 or twenty minutes and you think you are getting nowhere but then it suddenly releases. It’s very odd but do not stop keep on trying as described and am sure it will unlock then  charge car.

i have a ctek 5.0 trickle charger along with attached cable available as accessory  that Is permanently connect to battery and the end is sat outside bonnet next to glass and then no need to get into car if battery fails  

let us know how you get on

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1 hour ago, nerdstrike said:

Frankly our emergency keys are poo.

Thanks and agree!

1 hour ago, Chess010 said:

It’s very odd but do not stop keep on trying as described and am sure it will unlock then  charge car.

Thanks, given it another 25 minutes, tried to get some more GT85 in it.  No joy.  Need a break from it so may wait until tomorrow now.  I'm pretty patient, but this is testing.....although what a great 'game' to pass the time in lockdown!?  Would you say you were using force or just 'rocking'/turning it from side to side?  Once you get it to open is it then easy to repeat, you've just freed up the mechanism? 

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Thanks, given it another 25 minutes, tried to get some more GT85 in it.  No joy.  Need a break from it so may wait until tomorrow now.  I'm pretty patient, but this is testing.....although what a great 'game' to pass the time in lockdown!?  Would you say you were using force or just 'rocking'/turning it from side to side?  Once you get it to open is it then easy to repeat, you've just freed up the mechanism? 
I had to apply force, particularly counter clockwise (had to limit it though, was afraid of breaking the key).

Out of 3 times I tried only 1st took a long time, but I wouldn't want to try locking it and unlocking again.

I assume you tried spraying WD40 on the key as well?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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I mean wiggle very very small amount clockwise then anti-clockwise you hardly think it’s worth it but it then came free or at least did for me . Gentle rocking as fast as you can but not forceful put plenty of wd40 down before you start . Your problem seems harder than mine but I’d did come free and when it did it was sudden

not sure can give any more help am afraid . Warm the key first?  Or gently warm wd40 but take care don’t want to set it alight. Do not want to heat bodywork as may damage paintwork. Call out aa or rac? Assuming they are still working phone tonight and hope they can come by tomorrow that’s my only other suggestion although might find they cannot get open either. Do not use you much force as if break key in lock would make it even harder to get into. Don't know any burglars!!! They would get in no problem

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Thanks @VAD17 and @Chess010  so much, the encouragement that it's possible helps!  It sounds like two slightly different approaches, e.g. one of force one of more wiggle clockwise to anticlockwise.  I've being doing a mixture of both, but very concerned when I used force about the potential snap. 

I have been applying GT85 to the key as well as spraying some directly into the lock holding it open with another plastic nozzle.  I haven't heated the key at all, will go for more GT85 first.

I don't have any home start cover, I'd almost think if anything a decent locksmith might be of more use for this problem, but I'm not defeated (yet!).  Trying to find some positive view on it, it's not like I urgently need the car right now.

In other news, I get in from attempting the lock, have some dinner with a bit of the news on and it's almost like the car is trying to taunt me still - 

 

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As a last resort you may find one of your local small garages may come -assuming still working as believe some are  but all main dealers closed and for a price of course . Could try with mole grips or similar to hold key but think you could end up using too much force. Hopefully leaving WD40 overnight in lock will help- go out and add some more! Also as a final try see if after leaving for overnight try the fob again in case there is just enough power left in battery 

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4 hours ago, cts said:

Hi all,

First off, I hope everyone is doing as OK as possible during this odd time we're all going through.  It puts car issues into perspective to a degree, but the one I face today is seeming rather frustrating (and you can guess by the thread I'm adding to!).

Long story short - I'm locked out of my 86, dead battery and no joy with the physical keys (I have both).  Potentially more worryingly in the past (September 2018) I've had success with one of the physical keys when just my key fob battery died.

I have tried with some GT85/WD40 and turned the key back and forth for ~20 minutes now - no joy.  Any specific technique/extra detail that those who had success applied here - @Chess010, @Cerastes, @maurice ?  I can turn it both ways which I'm not sure is more worrying that it just being stiff and not moving. 

The key turns further right/clockwise (which I understand from this thread would be to lock) than the distance it moves left/anticlockwise which I understand would be to unclock) - is that in line with what could be curren expectations suggesting it needs a bit more force to turn further anticlockwise?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

2 hours ago, Chess010 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, VAD17 said:

I had to apply force, particularly counter clockwise (had to limit it though, was afraid of breaking the key).

Out of 3 times I tried only 1st took a long time, but I wouldn't want to try locking it and unlocking again.

I assume you tried spraying WD40 on the key as well?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

 

27 minutes ago, cts said:

Thanks @VAD17 and @Chess010  so much, the encouragement that it's possible helps!  It sounds like two slightly different approaches, e.g. one of force one of more wiggle clockwise to anticlockwise.  I've being doing a mixture of both, but very concerned when I used force about the potential snap. 

I have been applying GT85 to the key as well as spraying some directly into the lock holding it open with another plastic nozzle.  I haven't heated the key at all, will go for more GT85 first.

I don't have any home start cover, I'd almost think if anything a decent locksmith might be of more use for this problem, but I'm not defeated (yet!).  Trying to find some positive view on it, it's not like I urgently need the car right now.

In other news, I get in from attempting the lock, have some dinner with a bit of the news on and it's almost like the car is trying to taunt me still - 

 

T

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1 hour ago, Chess010 said:

As a last resort you may find one of your local small garages may come -assuming still working as believe some are  but all main dealers closed and for a price of course . Could try with mole grips or similar to hold key but think you could end up using too much force. Hopefully leaving WD40 overnight in lock will help- go out and add some more! Also as a final try see if after leaving for overnight try the fob again in case there is just enough power left in battery 

Thank you.  I've got time on my hands to try a bit.  I re-purposed the feed off an airduster can for the GT85 and got some of that in the lock, may help with a few hours over night as you say.  I have tried the fob again and will continue to (as a lot less effort and pain than the physical key!), but battery must be flat as a pancake....slight changes in weather may help....but think I'm clutching at straws there.

While I think about it, once you had success, did you do anything special to manage the top of the glass of the window that would otherwise normally drop?  I think they can open without this happening but of course not normally recommded?

Oh and think your second reply above wasn't intended(?)  Cheers again.

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I found threading a thin but longish allen key through the end of the key made it easier to hold and gave just enough leverage to twist that bit more to operate and unlock. 

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4 minutes ago, gazza82 said:

I found threading a thin but longish allen key through the end of the key made it easier to hold and gave just enough leverage to twist that bit more to operate and unlock. 

Cheers, may try this tomorrow.....just will feel extra nervous of that "snap" of the key breaking following it.

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By hand today it felt like with the extra GT85 lubrication in there I could move it ever so slightly more (may have all been in my head), but still couldn't get it.  I added even more GT85 and kept going a little more in my head thinking it would be working through.  Then....

@gazza82 - wow, so as I remembered I'd put my allen keys somewhere extra 'safe'/sensible (as was using more on my bike than the car with them!) so I decided to try the same approach you recommended with a strong thin drill bit.  Nervously I gently turned it, no particular pressure, first time it easily just popped open, no drama (aside from me being in shock and don't think I've ever been quite so happy to smell the waft of air freshener from the car).  Thank you so much for suggesting this.  Right tool for the job thing I guess and why "normal" physical keys have a greater surface, all about the turning moment.

I then popped the bonnet and 'climbed' back into the boot to get to my jump starter pack.  It had enough to set the alarm off a few times before dying, so giving that a charge now and will try again later.  At the very worst now I have access to replace the battery, but hoping it shouldn't come to that, although knowing they don't like to go completely flat.  The car has already have the larger capacity battery fitted by the dealer.

Thanks all for the input and thoughts here and hope this gives further help/encouragement to anyone else who ends up visiting this thread like I did due to have this issue.

 

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By hand today it felt like with the extra GT85 lubrication in there I could move it ever so slightly more (may have all been in my head), but still couldn't get it.  I added even more GT85 and kept going a little more in my head thinking it would be working through.  Then....
[mention=2054]gazza82[/mention] - wow, so as I remembered I'd put my allen keys somewhere extra 'safe'/sensible (as was using more on my bike than the car with them!) so I decided to try the same approach you recommended with a strong thin drill bit.  Nervously I gently turned it, no particular pressure, first time it easily just popped open, no drama (aside from me being in shock and don't think I've ever been quite so happy to smell the waft of air freshener from the car).  Thank you so much for suggesting this.  Right tool for the job thing I guess and why "normal" physical keys have a greater surface, all about the turning moment.
I then popped the bonnet and 'climbed' back into the boot to get to my jump starter pack.  It had enough to set the alarm off a few times before dying, so giving that a charge now and will try again later.  At the very worst now I have access to replace the battery, but hoping it shouldn't come to that, although knowing they don't like to go completely flat.  The car has already have the larger capacity battery fitted by the dealer.
Thanks all for the input and thoughts here and hope this gives further help/encouragement to anyone else who ends up visiting this thread like I did due to have this issue.
 
Glad you finally got in

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, VAD17 said:

Glad you finally got in emoji846.png

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Hi am glad you finally got into car. as I said it is a sudden freeing although i never had need to resort to allen key to aid movement although it would probably have helped me.I said before I got a CTEK charger along with this from amazon. well worth it as now can charge car anytime without need to get into car as this lead is always attached and jus need plug in to CTEK 5.0 charge unit.

if your car is still under warranty I would get in contact with toyota head office- hopefully they can still reply and tell them failed battery and hopefully gain a second one replaced under warranty. but if not get it checked out by local garage and if faulty there is usually a 3 ,4 or even 5 year warranty from the battery manufacturers and contact them to get their response. -worth doing a check on battery even if  seems to be holding charge

CTEK Indicator eyelet M8: practical LED indicator for immediate indication of battery charge levels

 
by CTEK

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Thanks @Chess010  Where do you position/store that adaptor lead?  I ordered a trickle charger this afternoon as thought I should have one, especially if lockdown is lasting longer.  My 86 is out of warranty now (14 plate), I'll double check when the battery replacement, but also first see it it recovers back to any form of normal health.

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Yes, also glad you’ve got in. I’ve been using a solar trickle charger periodically but now also ordered a ctek unit with battery condition indication and the fly leads I can leave in place - seems like a good solution as long as you don’t have to trail power cables across a public footpath


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Off for my first MOT tomorrow - some rust on brake discs that I’ll need to rub off on the local by-pass first - I’m sure will understand if I get stopped


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10 hours ago, cts said:

By hand today it felt like with the extra GT85 lubrication in there I could move it ever so slightly more (may have all been in my head), but still couldn't get it.  I added even more GT85 and kept going a little more in my head thinking it would be working through.  Then....

@gazza82 - wow, so as I remembered I'd put my allen keys somewhere extra 'safe'/sensible (as was using more on my bike than the car with them!) so I decided to try the same approach you recommended with a strong thin drill bit.  Nervously I gently turned it, no particular pressure, first time it easily just popped open, no drama (aside from me being in shock and don't think I've ever been quite so happy to smell the waft of air freshener from the car).  Thank you so much for suggesting this.  Right tool for the job thing I guess and why "normal" physical keys have a greater surface, all about the turning moment.

I then popped the bonnet and 'climbed' back into the boot to get to my jump starter pack.  It had enough to set the alarm off a few times before dying, so giving that a charge now and will try again later.  At the very worst now I have access to replace the battery, but hoping it shouldn't come to that, although knowing they don't like to go completely flat.  The car has already have the larger capacity battery fitted by the dealer.

Thanks all for the input and thoughts here and hope this gives further help/encouragement to anyone else who ends up visiting this thread like I did due to have this issue.

 

Glad the idea helped ... 

 

Not sure why the lock is so stiff unless it's the green gloop they put on everything for the boat ride from Japan! 

 

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11 hours ago, cts said:

Thanks @Chess010  Where do you position/store that adaptor lead?  I ordered a trickle charger this afternoon as thought I should have one, especially if lockdown is lasting longer.  My 86 is out of warranty now (14 plate), I'll double check when the battery replacement, but also first see it it recovers back to any form of normal health.

The adapter lead will only work if it is a ctek 5.0 charger I think. It is available on amazon. I goes from battery outside the bonnet and is permanently attached to battery terminals and is a little plug that I leave sitting on the area just below windscreen outside the bonnet. It is not obtrusive .I can recommend this ctek 5.0 charger available on amazon so search for the attachment which is cheap and also the charger

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*sigh*

I managed to unlock my car but it wouldn't start today. The start system took one look at the voltage as it primed the fuel system and quit. It was fine ten days ago and had a good run then.

Note to self - do not store jump leads in boot. The boot release didn't work so I had to crawl in via the rear seats. Mercifully I was then able to jump it and it was starting on its own after half an hour of essential errands. I hope I haven't goosed the battery, I only replaced it this winter.

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Seems odd started then cannot now do so

would it be worth disconnecting leaving fir few minutes then reattaching lead and charging again and see if then is ok

if get working again would take to local car shop or garage and get them to check battery and if faulty contact manufacturer of the battery if still under warranty

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2 hours ago, nerdstrike said:

Note to self - do not store jump leads in boot. The boot release didn't work so I had to crawl in via the rear seats. 

That's at least two of us this week then 🙃  See earlier in thread.  For me it was my battery pack jump start booster - which ironically (or not) was not actually any good in my situation (completely flat battery, needs a proper charger instead).  Good luck with getting your battery/car back to health too.

Currently I have borrowed a friend's CTEK MXS 3.8 charger on it.  All good so far, working it's way through the levels but am able to lock/unlock the car by the fob and no alarm issues.  My cheaper 'one trick' trickle charger is on the way.

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 Spayed the blade with WD40 amd left it in the lock before twisting and then only twisting gradually it eventually turned without breaking, A neighbor told me  my alarm went off due to three foxes dancing on my bonnet and roof setting the alarm off and flattening the batteries, bloody foxes

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I'm fully up and running now after a good re-charge of the battery.  Have my trickle charger now too which I'll leave it on.  Real test will be the next time I come to start it! 😀

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