Locking but chewed. Extremely tight

[jevvy 40]

Went to change my wheels today and since the cars service at rrg my electronic torque wrench was beeping like heck because they were tightened to 200nm?! Anywho one side came off with a lot of beeping then onto the other side and I was taking care as I noticed the other side was extremely tight the locking wheel nut rounded and in doing o made it slanted so it jumps out forever. Any idea on what I have to do now? And what the best way is tho solve the problem

[jevvy 40]

Update managed to use the key to get the front off so just the one that’s messed up now. Reckon I could just go somewhere and have them use my key and power tools to do it?

[Ignited 24]

The same happened on my MR2. I couldnt shift it and it was starting to round off. I took it to a tyre place and they got it off with my key and their gun as presumably they could put all their weight keeping the key on the wheelnut whereas I was having to turn and try to keep it pressed on firmly.

If that dosnt work, they should have a tool for stripped wheel nuts. Make sure you have another nut to go one with you!

[TommyC 33]

Heat may help, but i think the only way to get a decent concentration of heat would be a blow torch...😬

I'm wary of tyre places as I've had no less than 3 locking wheel nuts stripped by 3 different places over the years. Each time saw them re-fitting using the air/impact guns. They claimed to have torqued them as well, but me politely explaining "clicking a torque wrench set at 120Nm on something wound up way more is not torque loading" just provoked strange looks and/or attitude... 🙄🙄🙄

I hope you get it sorted ok 🙂

[jevvy 40]

7 hours ago, TommyC said:

Heat may help, but i think the only way to get a decent concentration of heat would be a blow torch...😬

I'm wary of tyre places as I've had no less than 3 locking wheel nuts stripped by 3 different places over the years. Each time saw them re-fitting using the air/impact guns. They claimed to have torqued them as well, but me politely explaining "clicking a torque wrench set at 120Nm on something wound up way more is not torque loading" just provoked strange looks and/or attitude... 🙄🙄🙄

I hope you get it sorted ok 🙂

Went to YouTube and found some interesting methods to try 

[jevvy 40]

I’ll ask rrg and see if they know  

[GT86-Ian 351]

Did the guys at RRG take your wheels off ?

[jevvy 40]

8 hours ago, GT86-Ian said:

Did the guys at RRG take your wheels off ?

Yeah I assume they would for servicing and there’s a hefty amount of copper grease which I have never bothered to use so 100%  

[billdingo 14]

You don't want to be using a torque wrench to undo anything, if you go past it's maximum loading you may put the calibration out.

[jevvy 40]

it can be set upto 250 so i assume its good for that! why on earth would a 110-120 wheel nut be 200 + nm of torque to get off plus 99% of time i put them there and it should be 120 who carries around 2 twister offers anyway : ( or do people go round overtightening peoples wheel nuts in the night to fuck with them maybe someone wanted to get me but incredibly subtly and id never know. I have now shifted my blame from rrg to steeps.

 

Edit; wasnt being a dick i actually took in the advice if not for this i would have definitely wanged on something too tight in the future and broke something so ty <3

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by jevvy

[billdingo 14]

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened with your wheel nuts, but bear in mind a nut normally done up to say 100nm will generally need 10 or 20nm more force to break it loose when removing as you need to overcome the initial friction etc.

[surrey86 352]

They shouldn't have any copper grease on them.

[Lauren 2259]

10 hours ago, jevvy said:

Yeah I assume they would for servicing and there’s a hefty amount of copper grease which I have never bothered to use so 100%  

They wouldn't necessarily take your wheels off for servicing unless they were doing something on the brakes.

[jevvy 40]

1 hour ago, Lauren said:

They wouldn't necessarily take your wheels off for servicing unless they were doing something on the brakes.

Well bugger knows who removed them smeared copper grease on them and put them back extra tight on while it was on my drive then  the copper grease bandits 

[jevvy 40]

2 hours ago, maurice said:

They shouldn't have any copper grease on them.

Please elaborate I thought it made no difference so was not needed however it can make it easier for removal?

 

[surrey86 352]

It affects the torque reading. Copper-slipped nuts will actually wind on a bit more (i.e. get tighter) for the same torque setting.

[TommyC 33]

WARNING! TOTAL ENGINEERING NERD POST!!

This goes some way to explain the differences...

https://www.enerpac.com/en-us/torque-tightening

Friction will 'use up' some of the torque value the torque wrench is set to.

Imagine you set the torque wrench to 120Nm, but the bolts were so stiff to move you 'used up' 20Nm to make them begin to turn. When they're finally tight and the wrench has clicked (or beeped) at 120Nm, there will be a reduced clamping force holding the assembly together (probably equivalent to 100Nm of torque).

Now imagine you have the same torque wrench set to 120Nm, and a standard threaded fastener (no extra friction). You put oil or grease on the threads and tighten it with your torque wrench until it clicks (or beeps). The reduced friction from the oil/grease means the fatener will turn more for the same applied force, resulting in an increased clamping force holding the assembly together (maybe the equivalent to 125-130Nm for example).

In most cases for most torque applications it is presumed the fastener (bolt/screw/nut) being torqued is 'dry', and there is negligible friction on the threads.

If lubricated torque is required the type of lubricant will be mentioned in the procedure.

(Can anyone guess I used to teach this stuff to Aircraft Mechanics?😬)

END OF POST, END OF WARNING! 😂😂

[TommyC 33]

Jevvy, what was the temperature of the wheels/brakes when you were loosening the bolts? I mean, the car been sat still since the day before?

There's a possibility that them being really cold could have caused the studs/nuts to be clamping on tighter due to slight shrinkage?!! (Coupled with some enthusiastic 'torque tightening' and some copper slip could account for your 200Nm+ reading...)

[TommyC 33]

Every day's a school day...

Breakout Torque
When loosening bolts a torque value higher than the tightening torque is normally required. This is mainly due to corrosion and deformations in the bolt and nut threads.

Breakout torque cannot be accurately calculated, however, depending on conditions it can take up to 2 1/2 times the input torque to breakout.

I never knew this!! I just remember teaching NEVER use a torque wrench to undo fasteners. This must be why, as this will definitely put the torque wrench out of calibration, or worst case kill the mechanism completely 😬😬

[jevvy 40]

Yeah I thought it was silly but now makes total sense it’s just for setting the tightness but not for cracking incredibly toght bolts but I had a really good seating on the nut and it still chewed and jumped out so the hammering on of a multihex was inevitable, perhaps a impact gun would have got it but not everyone uses one  and yeah the car was still from the night before but i took it round the block thinking it might fix it but no it was just incredibly tight

[Rich 378]

I have a solid breaker bar for loosening nuts - it's a bit longer than my torque wrench which helps. If they're really stuck a good trick is to use a piece of scaffolding pole or similar over the end of a breaker to increase the torque.