Drifting GT86, Manual vs Semi-Automatic!

[DrOsOs 0]

Hello,

I'm planning to buy a Toyota GT86 very soon. I've found a very good Automatic 2015 with reasonable price. I've seen all those thrilling videos for people drifting this car (Chris Harris, Top Gear, etc), and drifting is one of the main reasons I'm buying this car. Now, will I be able to drift this automatic car in the "manual mode" the same way those people drifted the manual one?

Are there any differences between drifting the automatic (semi-automatic) vs the manual version of this car?

Many thanks

[S18 RSG 429]

For many reasons the auto will be far worse to drift than the manual. To list a few:

- Lack of clutch removes a very reliable form of initiating a drift (clutch kick)

- Gear ratios are quite a lot longer in the auto, so it's harder to keep the revs where you want them

- Even in full manual mode, I would imagine the auto box would still automatically shift up at redline, or down at low revs

There are more reasons that I'm sure others will mention, but these are, to me, the most important.

[rob275 1817]

If you want to drift is, manual really is the only way to go. Welcome to the forums by the way  

[Lauren 2259]

Forget the auto, it will be crap for drifting. Has to be a manual. 

[Tareim 343]

2 hours ago, S18 RSG said:

- Even in full manual mode, I would imagine the auto box would still automatically shift up at redline, or down at low revs

it will drop down a gear if your revs drop down to 1krpm or below which really is just for engine safety but it will just bounce of the limiter at the top end and will not upshift unless you tell it to

 

1 hour ago, Lauren said:

Forget the auto, it will be crap for drifting. Has to be a manual. 

I've been sliding mine around, a clutch kick might've been useful once in a while but have had no issues initiating a drift without the clutch

[DrOsOs 0]

Thank you guys, the discussion is really helpful as I have no experience yet with drifting!

[Lauren 2259]

The best thing for you to do if you want to get into drifting is to do a drift day and learn the techniques. I've had some tuition and it was very useful. What I would say is that drifters don't use automatics. It's not a 'semi-auto'. It's an automatic gearbox with manual control when you put it in manual mode. I have driven an auto on track not for the purpose of drifting. I found the response okay, apart from things like upshifts being slow, but that doesn't matter for drifting. The torque converter does seem to lock up okay. Is there is a slight lack of response compared to a manual coming on and off the throttle? Well perhaps. The gearing is longer in the auto which doesn't help but doesn't mean you can't do it. 

It's one thing doing slow speed 'drifts' in first gear and the like, but drifting is about at least 2nd gear and 3rd gear drifts. I think the longer gearing will be a little hinderance but like I said, it doesn't mean you can't do it. You could change the final drive to help. I'm not sure whether doing such things in an auto will cause any issues with the auto box. It does seem prone to having issues when being abused, though most of this seems related to forced induction and the auto box. I guess the unknown thing is that as nobody uses an auto for drifting we don't know if it is a problem or not. That said, it might not be an issue. 

Have you any experience of drifting or driving on track? 

 

[DrOsOs 0]

3 hours ago, Lauren said:

The best thing for you to do if you want to get into drifting is to do a drift day and learn the techniques. I've had some tuition and it was very useful. What I would say is that drifters don't use automatics. It's not a 'semi-auto'. It's an automatic gearbox with manual control when you put it in manual mode. I have driven an auto on track not for the purpose of drifting. I found the response okay, apart from things like upshifts being slow, but that doesn't matter for drifting. The torque converter does seem to lock up okay. Is there is a slight lack of response compared to a manual coming on and off the throttle? Well perhaps. The gearing is longer in the auto which doesn't help but doesn't mean you can't do it. 

It's one thing doing slow speed 'drifts' in first gear and the like, but drifting is about at least 2nd gear and 3rd gear drifts. I think the longer gearing will be a little hinderance but like I said, it doesn't mean you can't do it. You could change the final drive to help. I'm not sure whether doing such things in an auto will cause any issues with the auto box. It does seem prone to having issues when being abused, though most of this seems related to forced induction and the auto box. I guess the unknown thing is that as nobody uses an auto for drifting we don't know if it is a problem or not. That said, it might not be an issue. 

Have you any experience of drifting or driving on track? 

 

Thank you for your reply,

I had some track experience with a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and a McLaren. And I'm planning to do some drifting days. The thing now is I need to decide whether to go for this well priced automatic or wait for another manual one.

Does anyone know if the gear in say a Ferrari with dual clutch is any similar to the dual clutch in the Toyota GT86? Because people have been drifting sport cars with dual clutch mechanism all over YouTube.

[Keethos 842]

It's not dual clutch, it's pretty good for an auto but not as good as a dual clutch. I'd say wait for a manual, I'm assuming most of the autos that have been seen drifting on YouTube are big powered cars anyways which will be easier to break traction to start drifting, the 86 will require a bit more effort to achieve a proper drift and I think having a manual would be more suitable.

[Kodename47 446]

37 minutes ago, DrOsOs said:

Does anyone know if the gear in say a Ferrari with dual clutch is any similar to the dual clutch in the Toyota GT86?

It's not a dual clutch in this car

[DrOsOs 0]

18 minutes ago, Keethos said:

It's not dual clutch, it's pretty good for an auto but not as good as a dual clutch. I'd say wait for a manual, I'm assuming most of the autos that have been seen drifting on YouTube are big powered cars anyways which will be easier to break traction to start drifting, the 86 will require a bit more effort to achieve a proper drift and I think having a manual would be more suitable.

Thanks a lot,

Can I ask do you drive a manual or auto?

[Deacon 1357]

9 minutes ago, DrOsOs said:

Thanks a lot,

Can I ask do you drive a manual or auto?

Keith drives a manual as do most of us. Whatever the intended use (fast road/track/drift) unless there are medical grounds I don't know why anyone would have the auto over the manual. The GT86 ethos suits a manual so much more.

[DrOsOs 0]

37 minutes ago, Deacon said:

Keith drives a manual as do most of us. Whatever the intended use (fast road/track/drift) unless there are medical grounds I don't know why anyone would have the auto over the manual. The GT86 ethos suits a manual so much more.

I see what you mean, for me auto would be nice in busy traffic, and I like the paddle shifts, but again I don't want to miss the power and excitement of the manual shifting. That's why I want to know if the manual mode in the auto will give me the power and ability to drift similar to the manual

[rob275 1817]

It sounds like whatever anyone says here you want the auto so get it 

[DrOsOs 0]

2 minutes ago, rob275 said:

It sounds like whatever anyone says here you want the auto so get it 

I haven't made my mind yet to be honest, that's why your comments are very appreciated. I got some feedback from people who have an auto GT86 and they said they were able to drift it easily. Anyone with an auto tried drifting?

 

[Lauren 2259]

As others have said, unless there's a reason why you have to drive an auto, a manual is far better suited and you'll have better control of course. There are plenty of cars around, wait for a manual it's a no brainer. 

For drifting the lack of a clutch to kick isn't the issue. What will be an issue is, if you want to try and hold a drift and change up from second to third. The auto does not shift up quickly. You also won't be able to dip the clutch when you use the handbrake. Whilst you can pull the handbrake in an auto, it will disengage the torque converter, so when you get back on it, the response won't be quick enough. I think unless you are trying to prove a point, give up with the idea of drifting an auto. 

[DrOsOs 0]

2 hours ago, Lauren said:

As others have said, unless there's a reason why you have to drive an auto, a manual is far better suited and you'll have better control of course. There are plenty of cars around, wait for a manual it's a no brainer. 

For drifting the lack of a clutch to kick isn't the issue. What will be an issue is, if you want to try and hold a drift and change up from second to third. The auto does not shift up quickly. You also won't be able to dip the clutch when you use the handbrake. Whilst you can pull the handbrake in an auto, it will disengage the torque converter, so when you get back on it, the response won't be quick enough. I think unless you are trying to prove a point, give up with the idea of drifting an auto. 

Thanks for that Lauren

[Keethos 842]

Yes as Deacon mentioned I drive a manual but I first test drove an auto but that was purely because that was all the dealer had. Maybe because I'm not used to it but found the paddles a lil fussy when driving normally and boring if driving in full auto. Paddles make sense when you're pushing hard or on track but you lose a lil fun in gear changing.

[DrOsOs 0]

34 minutes ago, Keethos said:

Yes as Deacon mentioned I drive a manual but I first test drove an auto but that was purely because that was all the dealer had. Maybe because I'm not used to it but found the paddles a lil fussy when driving normally and boring if driving in full auto. Paddles make sense when you're pushing hard or on track but you lose a lil fun in gear changing.

Thanks for that Keith, apart from the joy and excitement of manually changing the gears, do you think I'll miss any power or agility in an auto?

[Test Drives Unlimited 278]

The Auto is more fun once you let Adrian remap the car at Fensport

Sent from my Archos 53 Platinum using Tapatalk

[Keethos 842]

While you are pushing on I'd imagine not (especially if you plan on modifying the car i.e. changing the final drive, remap, exhaust system etc) but you will probably find quick starts off the line to be a lot slower than a manual, I can't remember the exact technical reasoning for this but I think it's something along the lines of the torque converter not engaging straight away thus allowing it to slip and preventing you from accelerating as hard as a manual gear box would off the line.

[S18 RSG 429]

If you've ever driven a DSG or ZF gearbox, you won't buy the auto GT86. I had a DSG before my GT86, and like Keith the only car my local dealer had was an auto. It was dreadful in comparison. I wouldn't have bought it anyway, it's a sports car so in my eyes it needs a manual box, but it's just straight up not good enough in the modern day where autos are actually very good.

[DrOsOs 0]

9 hours ago, S18 RSG said:

but it's just straight up not good enough in the modern day where autos are actually very good.

Sorry, are you saying that the auto gear box in the GT86 is not good enough or the opposite?

[Keethos 842]

He's saying the 86's gear box isn't as good as the DSG variants, I believe it's a very good auto box for a traditional gear box but still not upto DSG standards.

[DrOsOs 0]

Thank you (Y)