Jump to content
Deacon

So.... talk manifolds to me

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

It came with a manifold to overpipe gasket. I bought new block to manifold gaskets off ebay.

Perfect. I bought the head to manifold gaskets already. I wasn't sure if I'd need to by new gaskets for everything else. Cheers Rich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Rich said:

You might want a new overpipe to front pipe gasket. Should be able to get one for a couple of quid.

That gasket was changed when I had the exhaust fitted a few thousand miles ago. It should be fine, if not I'll pick one up.

Just had confirmation that the manifold is coming tomorrow. Really impressed that it's been so quick to deliver. 6 days from order to my doorstep from California. Not bad at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been coated by Performance 1 coatings, which I arranged via Fast Fox Performance. They had a stand at Japfest so I negotiated a show discount. :)

The colour is "deep black".

 

*edit*

I should add that I got free shipping both ways, they're shipping it straight to Fensport for me after the work is done, it's been vigorously inspected (failed twice and been redone) and I'm very happy with the final result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Dannyw86trd said:

Anyone know if the japspeed decat manifold is any good? 

It looks like a generic eBay manifold. I can't imagine longevity or amazing quality but I'm sure it would be OK. Probably available on eBay or Aliexpress for very cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thread resurrection time......

Just had an HKS Spec-L catback fitted - rest of zorst is std - but now my attention is turning to the torque hole and manifolds. (yes - I am probably doing this the wrong way round)

UEL preferred as seems to fill the hole best and makes the burble. There don't seem to be any CATed UEL manifolds anymore (HKS don't seem to make their's anymore).

Has anyone had any MOT emissions problems with just the OEM secondary CAT in their system?

Toying with the idea of Tomei UEL (poss +overpipe-is it worth it?)

 

 

Edit: Oh and any CEL problems? And how are they overcome?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Twigman said:

Thread resurrection time......

Just had an HKS Spec-L catback fitted - rest of zorst is std - but now my attention is turning to the torque hole and manifolds. (yes - I am probably doing this the wrong way round)

UEL preferred as seems to fill the hole best and makes the burble. There don't seem to be any CATed UEL manifolds anymore (HKS don't seem to make their's anymore).

Has anyone had any MOT emissions problems with just the OEM secondary CAT in their system?

Toying with the idea of Tomei UEL (poss +overpipe-is it worth it?)

 

 

Edit: Oh and any CEL problems? And how are they overcome?

If you want the torque hole filled you really have three options, Ace, Rogue Motorsport or TD. Only Rogue Motorsport's and Td's are available as UEL but all three as UEL or EL will fill the torque dip due to being longtube headers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Deacon said:

If you want the torque hole filled you really have three options, Ace, Rogue Motorsport or TD.

What did you settle for in the end?

 

James at Amber reckons the Tomei UEL will fill the hole....does it not?

And have you had any CEL as a result?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Twigman said:

What did you settle for in the end?

 

James at Amber reckons the Tomei UEL will fill the hole....does it not?

And have you had any CEL as a result?

I had a catted JDL Uel originally. It improved the torque dip but didn't fill it. The cat died due to track use too. 

I now have a Rogue Motorsport El and have no dip. I've put the dyno graph below. No codes as they're mapped out anyway. 

IMG_20190309_180732_345.jpg.b762f2ff4f9dd4ddee306feeef512b96.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Twigman said:

Just had an HKS Spec-L catback fitted - rest of zorst is std - but now my attention is turning to the torque hole and manifolds. (yes - I am probably doing this the wrong way round)

Entirely off-topic, which version of the Spec-L did you go for?  I have my eye on one of those (IIRC @Deacon has one and his car sounds fantastic) and I think the red carbon tips would look rather fetching with grey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Twigman said:

Thread resurrection time......

Just had an HKS Spec-L catback fitted - rest of zorst is std - but now my attention is turning to the torque hole and manifolds. (yes - I am probably doing this the wrong way round)

UEL preferred as seems to fill the hole best and makes the burble. There don't seem to be any CATed UEL manifolds anymore (HKS don't seem to make their's anymore).

Has anyone had any MOT emissions problems with just the OEM secondary CAT in their system?

Toying with the idea of Tomei UEL (poss +overpipe-is it worth it?)

 

 

Edit: Oh and any CEL problems? And how are they overcome?

I have a new unfitted Gruppe-S UEL I might be selling shortly if you're interested. Complete with new OEM gaskets and sump heatshield.

It's basically a rebranded Tomei manifold but the design is better as the slip joint brackets point towards the engine not the floor (the ones on the Tomei point towards to floor and can hit the floorpan). It is also ceramic coated silver with Performance 1's "Volcanic coating". Unsure on a price yet as it owes me quite a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As@deacon has said, there are really only those 3 manifolds that have proven ability to eliminate the whole torque dip. Rest all do it to certain degree and not the best result here in the UK. You have done it the right way in some ways , now with an exhaust + manifold, you have the least restriction and can get the best outcome of an NA tune. With 1 cat , you will pass your MOT in the initial years for sure. Not sure if it has a long term risk as the CAT weakens. It is a good investment and if someone wanted 1 mod that gives the best NA performance gain, then this is it.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new JDL 4-2-1 also looks good, not sure how it compares getting one into the UK price wise but will be up there with the ACE/Rogue ones I reckon.

https://jdlautodesign.net/shop/jdl-auto-design-ft86-4-2-1-equal-length-header

Note that this is their UEL vs new 4-2-1 EL rather than vs stock:

jdl_421el-2019-1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

As@deacon has said, there are really only those 3 manifolds that have proven ability to eliminate the whole torque dip. Rest all do it to certain degree and not the best result here in the UK. You have done it the right way in some ways , now with an exhaust + manifold, you have the least restriction and can get the best outcome of an NA tune. With 1 cat , you will pass your MOT in the initial years for sure. Not sure if it has a long term risk as the CAT weakens. It is a good investment and if someone wanted 1 mod that gives the best NA performance gain, then this is it.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

There are more options than that

Tomei UEL, Gruppe-S and their derivatives, FT86SF, JDL and OFT all have proven to fill out the torque dip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anybody know were in the UK I can get a UEL catted manifold ?? Nobody seems to list these anymore and the cost to import one is stupid money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, most UELs do well on filling that dip, and prior Ace's that did both, i thought that UEL in general for twins in is more for filling that dip & mid gains, while ELs still having dip but more top gains (eg. Nameless's/PTuning EL headers). Ace's shown that it's not just about generic design layout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JohnM: i suggest to not get catted aftermarket header, as:

1) catted headers are noticeably more expensive

2) they still don't do main thing one might expect for them - they are not completely sure way to not thrown cat readiness checks related CELs with stock tune, thus probably you won't save on not getting ECU tuned. One won't pass visual checks with those either, if MOT involves such. So legality wise still no "cure" vs their catless counterparts.

3) primary cat in header is in most hurting performance location close to cylinders.

So they cost more, perform worse, and you still need ecu tune. Bad price/performance purchase imho. Better good catless header, leave stock 2ndary cat, ecu tune. Should pass MOT tests where they test only emissions, most performance per single bolt-on NA upgrade (with right ecu tune).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JohnM I'd listen to Church, you are better off having your cat in the front pipe if you can. Your tune will also be more conservative with a catted manifold to preserve the cat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Varelco said:

There are more options than that

Tomei UEL, Gruppe-S and their derivatives, FT86SF, JDL and OFT all have proven to fill out the torque dip.

Apart from the Ace, TD, Rogue and potentially the new JDL longtube manifold all of the others will help with the torque dip but not fill it to the extent that the longtube manifolds will. 

Here is a dyno of my previous JDL Uel manifold where you can see it helps but certainly doesn't fill the torque dip to the extent the Rogue longtube does:-

IMG_20170211_173423.jpg.0de8345d45c7e8e2043374d19a51a91f.jpg

Pretty sure that @KevinA has a dyno graph with a comparison between a Tomei and TD somewhere on the site too showing a similar difference between the Tomei helping but the TD turning the dip to a peak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Varelco said:
There are more options than that
Tomei UEL, Gruppe-S and their derivatives, FT86SF, JDL and OFT all have proven to fill out the torque dip.

These are all the rage on the other side of the Atlantic but if you ask the main tuners here , Mark -abbey, Mike -Tuning Dev, Adrian - fensport, they will not really vouch for them but only Ace (and Rogue (Very similar design to Ace) and  JDL old manifold /TD (very similar design). Not sure why the other manifolds don't give same results here, different fuel quality, different weather, tune etc. Unsure.

Have a look at this video just for reference 


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×