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NA ECU tuning

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I found this interesting. Particularly his view on ECU tuning an NA motor without mods i.e. Dont bother you get nothing. 

Anybody have any evidence to the contrary?

 

Thanks

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I had my civic tuned without any bolt ons for around 12 months. No increase in peak bhp but the mid range was improved and vtec point lowered buy 1200 revs. Felt really nice afterwards but I suppose each application will differ on results.

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I had my GT86 Mapped by Fensport in NA form. 

As long as you remove the second cat and replace it with a front pipe you can make gains. 

The 2nd cat is massively restrictive on the GT86. You're never going to get massive kick in the back gains. But drivability and maybe 12hp gain is not a total waste of money! 

I could feel the difference between mine NA and getting back into a totally stock '86. 

But i'd recommend getting a decent exhaust system and air filter before mapping. 

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I would disagree a bit. Primary cat in header usually is more restrictive .. or maybe not more, but at least hurts performance most due it's placement not far from cylinders to heat up sooner to working temps. Hence in bolt-on mods thread catless header is mentioned as biggest NA power single improvement.
When 1st is gone, removal of 2ndary doesn't play too big of a role (after all, one may soon start hitting diminishing returns from exhaust/intake upgrades, when closing up to +35-40whp). And i've seen some guys putting back stock pipe with stock 2nd cat, when their highflow aftermarket one didn't let to pass emission tests. Drawback going catless header instead of 2ndary cat delete, is that due primary cat missing one may see thrown P0420 CEL after some time. That check can be disabled in tune though (no sense in NOT getting tune with aftermarket header).

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I've always thought that the cost of Ecutek on a NA car is costly for the modest gains (although I'm happy to accept that you can get some), particularly compared to the large HP increase I got mapping my last turbo'd car. However, oddly the thing that keeps pulling me towards doing it eventually is to get rid of the bloody annoying start up boom with a non-res exhaust that is not great for neighbour relationships!

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On a stock car it's pretty pointless. If you have a well designed exhaust system , inlet mods etc then it becomes a different story. You won't always see huge peak gains but it's what can be done across the whole rev range which makes it beneficial.

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On a stock car it's pretty pointless. If you have a well designed exhaust system , inlet mods etc then it becomes a different story. You won't always see huge peak gains but it's what can be done across the whole rev range which makes it beneficial.

it's not at all pointless on a stock car as the base map has to deal with someone putting in basic fuel so you can get it remapped to take full advantage of premium 99 fuel and liberate some horses

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I've always thought that the cost of Ecutek on a NA car is costly for the modest gains (although I'm happy to accept that you can get some), particularly compared to the large HP increase I got mapping my last turbo'd car. However, oddly the thing that keeps pulling me towards doing it eventually is to get rid of the bloody annoying start up boom with a non-res exhaust that is not great for neighbour relationships!

Tactrix if you don't like the cost and only want cold start sorting?

it's not at all pointless on a stock car as the base map has to deal with someone putting in basic fuel so you can get it remapped to take full advantage of premium 99 fuel and liberate some horses

The standard tune is designed to run optimally on decent fuel. Any remap can deal with lower grade fuel the same way as the OEM does as it's the ECU's knock control strategy.

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it's not at all pointless on a stock car as the base map has to deal with someone putting in basic fuel so you can get it remapped to take full advantage of premium 99 fuel and liberate some horses

It does this anyway. If the ECU didn't automatically compensate for the better fuel why do we all run high octane fuel? 

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It does this anyway. If the ECU didn't automatically compensate for the better fuel why do we all run high octane fuel? 

Surely it doesn't fully compensate for the best fuel? That some extra tweaking could do

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk

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On a stock car it's pretty pointless. If you have a well designed exhaust system , inlet mods etc then it becomes a different story. You won't always see huge peak gains but it's what can be done across the whole rev range which makes it beneficial.

Sorry I disagree

the stock map is poor and so massively conservative you can make some good gains by just putting to 'normal' values, its about 4 degrees away from knock on 98 gasoline and runs 10:1 target AFR , which is rich for a turbo car

this is often not true for an NA car but with the '86 you can make 10-12 bhp gain with no other supporting mods and replace the air filter with something not made of solid you can get a few bhp more than this

so a tune / stage 1  pack is excellent value on this car

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Surely it doesn't fully compensate for the best fuel? That some extra tweaking could do

 

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk

 

 

Yeah sure it won't be completely optimised on the higher octane fuel but it can't be that far off, the ECU is adaptive to some degree. It's just whether that 500+ quid remap is worth the effort (remap, license, dyno time)

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Yeah sure it won't be completely optimised on the higher octane fuel but it can't be that far off, the ECU is adaptive to some degree. It's just whether that 500+ quid remap is worth the effort (remap, license, dyno time)

the few extra ponies and removing that bloody awful cold start is well worth it

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I personally have always thought na tuning falls into 2 catagories. Pointless being one and expensive being the other. 

Naff all gains for the relative cost going small, but if you big.. Eg. Cams, lightening/balancing, itbs etc.. The whole shabang. you'll have something special... Id rather buy another car! 

 

Na tuners please dont take that personally.. Its just my opinion.

Edited by Dan7954

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Sonic. I guess you'd need multiple maps  to cover varying fuel grades if you come closer to knock on 98 octane?

Not necessarily, although some tuners do. The stock tune does it.

I think the remap is worth it just for the shift blip.. That and a bit more power is attractive. The cost however is slightly too high to make me commit. Seems too expensive

Again, Tactrix? No where near the cost, although you won't get the autoblip of ECUtek.

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Just to throw a spanner into the works. I've been thinking about getting a remap on my car and have had the remap on my insurance since January. However, we did a rolling road day last Sunday at Tuning Developments. My car made more power than the remapped cars. All three of us have similar mods, induction, 2nd decat and an exhaust system. 

Just to make it more interesting, my car made 201.6bhp having covered 75K miles. It made exactly the same power as it did on the same rollers at 10K miles. Of the two remaps, one was 199.6bhp and the other 195.4bhp (IIRC). 

If I was going to have a remap then I'd want my car to make more power, not less. So I remain somewhat unconvinced. Both of these remaps were done by Fensport on the road rather than using a rolling road. 

For comparison on the same rollers a stock car made 189bhp. 

 

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I think the remap is worth it just for the shift blip.. That and a bit more power is attractive. The cost however is slightly too high to make me commit. Seems too expensive

Or you could just learn to heel and toe. It's really easy on the GT. That's the thing for me, I'm not interested in the auto blip, flat shifting or launch control. I can drive the car okay myself having spent years learning driving techniques. 

Edited by Lauren

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Just to throw a spanner into the works. I've been thinking about getting a remap on my car and have had the remap on my insurance since January. However, we did a rolling road day last Sunday at Tuning Developments. My car made more power than the remapped cars. All three of us have similar mods, induction, 2nd decat and an exhaust system. 

Just to make it more interesting, my car made 201.6bhp having covered 75K miles. It made exactly the same power as it did on the same rollers at 10K miles. Of the two remaps, one was 199.6bhp and the other 195.4bhp (IIRC). 

If I was going to have a remap then I'd want my car to make more power, not less. So I remain somewhat unconvinced. Both of these remaps were done by Fensport on the road rather than using a rolling road. 

For comparison on the same rollers a stock car made 189bhp. 

 

rolling road is only really going to highlight the peak power, I'd imagine the road tune from fensport is going to have a bigger effect on daily driving rather than peak power

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Yours is a 2012 car though Lauren isn't it? They had different maps to 2013 onwards cars I've been led to believe as the afr is different on 12 and 62 plate cars when dyno'd to anything 13 onwards. In effect the 2012 cars are mapped!

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