Kodename47 446 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 Aren't the bearings designed to "absorb" minor debris during the running in cycle? Rather that than scoring the crank. I'm sure that's the case these days. 1 Ade reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 Hope it is the case still if you walked into your place of purchase for the car and put them on the desk I can imagine the answer would be why do you need to take your engine apart and if I walked in with the pictures my dealer would most probably say well its not your engine and sod off we have given you a 5 year warranty! I can see nigels point of view as I have never seen shells like that after such short engine hours still we shall wait and see Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 2, 2014 Bimetal or tri metal bearings are designed to absorb tiny pieces of debris, and keep them away form the crank surface. In my pics you can see the whitemetal has had debris embedded in it, and that the debris has moved around until it came out somewhere? The polishing of the bearing surface is a little concern as the bearing shouldn't actually contact the crank at all? As I said earlier, I have stripped engines with 50000 miles on them and seen bearings in better condition... Still, as Nik has already mentioned, I don't have a leg to stand on complaints wise because i've stripped the engine... So.. I'll shut up. I would have thought there may be more comments about the debris in the coolant system TBH?? I'm waiting for it to dry out so I can ascertain what it is... BTW.. The "Other" engine has been stripped by a friend of mine, he found swarf under one of his rod bearings, which pushed the bearing into the crank and wore a bald patch onto the surface with copper showing through!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GT86Jay 202 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 It'd be interesting to see how the Fensport Race GT86 looks when that gets stripped down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 2, 2014 I also look forward to seeing that engine stripped. It could well be that the earlier engines were built cleaner? That's my whole point here, I don't think it's a bad engine, I've just been unlucky with metal debris in mine when built. Anyway, back to my thread. I should have some pretty Pistons and rods under my camera soon? They will look very nice indeed!! In the meantime I'll be busy cleaning everything up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 It will to a point, Jay, though that is an atypical engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 Bimetal or tri metal bearings are designed to absorb tiny pieces of debris, and keep them away form the crank surface. In my pics you can see the whitemetal has had debris embedded in it, and that the debris has moved around until it came out somewhere? The polishing of the bearing surface is a little concern as the bearing shouldn't actually contact the crank at all? As I said earlier, I have stripped engines with 50000 miles on them and seen bearings in better condition... Still, as Nik has already mentioned, I don't have a leg to stand on complaints wise because i've stripped the engine... So.. I'll shut up. I would have thought there may be more comments about the debris in the coolant system TBH?? I'm waiting for it to dry out so I can ascertain what it is...No need to shut up nigel copper showing OMG interesting find I don't think many people have gone for engine rebuilds at this time of ownership as for the coolant lets hope its some form of anti corrosion gunge but I doubt it! BTW.. The "Other" engine has been stripped by a friend of mine, he found swarf under one of his rod bearings, which pushed the bearing into the crank and wore a bald patch onto the surface with copper showing through!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 no need to shut up nigel copper showing OMG! as for coolant perhaps its what comes through my 58 plate Yaris rear doors on the lower sill! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 2, 2014 I didn't think you were telling me to shut up Nik, I was agreeing with what you say. If you don't strip your engine, you'll never know if there are problems, if you find said problem, you've stripped your engine so voided your warranty as far as your dealer is concerned?? Damned if you do, damned if you don't!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 I didn't think you were telling me to shut up Nik, I was agreeing with what you say.If you don't strip your engine, you'll never know if there are problems, if you find said problem, you've stripped your engine so voided your warranty as far as your dealer is concerned??Damned if you do, damned if you don't!!no worries I meant you keep posting what you find as you say a sort of catch 22! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 9, 2014 I have news on my engine findings.Apparently these engines have a special bearing material on them to cope with the high revving design of the engine. If they were suspect, I guess Toyota wouldn't give us a 5 year warranty? I'm still undecided whether it will go again or not?As for the debris in the cooling system, it actually does look like it's casting sand. Once the parts were washed off the "gunge" changed into a very fine brown powder, which would probably not cause any issues whatsoever? Certainly, on my engine the vast majority had settled between and below the cylinders on the left bank of the engine.Some professional builders have seen this and have commented that it is common in all engines these days?I now have the engine all stripped and cleaned and am spending my evenings removing the silicone sealant all over it. I am using Wurth Silicone remover and have a fresh tube of three bond sealant and a genuine Subaru Gasket set for the rebuild.I am still undecided on the Manley rods and pistons or Carillo CP route? The price difference is astonishing, and Manley are apparently the only Forged pistons that are graded to the bore size as per the originals.Anybody here have experience of Manley or Carillo? Good or bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 I think you might well be the first, Ed (LFA) excepted who seems to have gone a bit quiet on here of late to change the pistons and rods. It's okay, we'll learn from you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 although I am not up to speed on this engine I was curious how long it has been about and is there any history of early failures? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 Tbh I don't know of any early engine failures due to these reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 that's good I would dread to think of prices if it was to seize up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 If it seized up it would be a warranty claim anyway. But nobodies has to my knowledge. I'm on 51K using no oil and still yet to have a warranty claim for anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nikndel 509 Report post Posted December 9, 2014 true. apart from the vvti problems there seems to be little to report Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 9, 2014 As far as "I" know, the only issues have been the VVTI problems and the very early engines being built with upside down top piston rings. Apparently, having spoken to GT Nige, all the ring problem engines were changed out and the VVTI issues are sorted, either under warranty, or in the case of newer cars, sorted from new.I have seen "stuff" which talks about the possibility of premature direct injector seal failure on boosted engines, but this is hardly a concern for Toyobaru, as the engine was never designed to be boosted in this guise. Having said that, I haven't seen a single failure reported?Having stripped mine, I can confirm the quality of some of the components in the FA20 are superb. The Crank is gorgeous,it's light, strong and Nitrided.. what more could one want in a crank. All the casings are very nicely cast and the fact that the engine can be totally stripped with no special tools is a credit to the designers.. thank you!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Well, Christmas has come early for me.I have ordered a full set of ARP Head and Main studs from the USA. Apparently the mains pull down so good, I'll need to get the bearing housings rehoned when torqued!! I have a company in line for this.. no pun intended ;-)After a long email trail between Mark at Abbey and myself, I have finally decided on Carrillo H section rods with CARRS bolts and CP 10:1 pistons. He is currently getting these in for me, so when they arrive you will all see some loverly pics!! You may have guessed by now, I am looking to achieve a bullet proof bottom end!!Mark has the patience of a saint, with all my questions answered and quotes flying my way. I intend to spend more money with him throughout this project... Thanks Mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee 82 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 Have you decided on the FI option that you are going with? I've seen you mention avo but don't know if you have committed yourself to anything yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 11, 2014 Have you decided on the FI option that you are going with? I've seen you mention avo but don't know if you have committed yourself to anything yet?Hi Lee,I still haven't committed to anything yet? I would really like to go the turbo route, but worry about the spikes as mentioned by Mark and the subject of heat. However, if I go S/C my 400HP goal is going to be right at the top, or more than likely, over the top of the currently available set ups.I think I'll get the engine back together with rods and pistons, just to see how bad it drives with 10:1 CR on a NA set up...Thanks for your interest mate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee 82 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 I've experience with the rotrex c30-94 units as offered by jackson / kraftwerks / litchfield on a different platform, 400hp is the headline number from the charger at the 'max rpm' in reality the maximum impeller speed of 100,000 rpm can be safely passed by 10-20% and in some cases higher. The problem that can happen with them is if the car is mapped to have a hard rev limit as it shocks the shaft. I've went with the HKS option, based on the rotrex blower but with a larger shaft (12mm vs 10mm) so should in theory be stronger. 400hp is my end goal too. There is criticism about the way centrifugal set ups make the power, as mid range is never that strong with them, the lines just go up at a steeper angle. My last car was a mini cooper s, it started life with a roots supercharger and was at ~ 280bhp, I loved its power delivery as the torque curve was very flat and it suited the nature of the car. I then build a race car and opted to go with a rotrex unit (centrifugal) and although I enjoyed it (340 bhp), it felt a bit lacking as I had been used to the torque from the roots type set up it had, and there was a problem with the unit. The car had an early rotrex unit (holset compressor cover) and was an ebay 2nd hand buy, the charger compressor wheel would stall when 20psi was reached (mini engines dont breathe well) Anyway, decided to change to a turbocharged set up and used a NGTC turbo from owen developments and I really enjoyed that (380bhp) it allowed a lazy driving approach on track due to the torque coming out of corners. I feel that a centrifugal set up will suit the gt86 more than the other options and thats my reason for going with the HKS, but I do fully see why people are interested in roots / twin screw and turbocharged set ups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lauren 2259 Report post Posted December 11, 2014 I drove Maz's car recently and I have to say Version 2 is a huge improvement over his initial setup. The mid range is stronger than I remembered it from the first time and it went banzai over 6K which I really enjoyed because you can really wring it out. I admit, I like this setup because although it doesn't match the lazy torque of the turbos that you have to work it a bit is no bad thing. It feels like a 3 litre NA which is great as it feels very adjustable. I really like accurate throttle control and I feel this is easier to achieve with a supercharger. I've driven a decent amount of turbos too and they are undoubtedly impressive but I think the throttle control is more accurate with the supercharger, almost as good as an NA. 1 Lee reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 11, 2014 I was on the phone to Mark tonight, he mentioned the HKS set up, but it has an upper limit of sub 400hp? I'm putting £2000 into my bottom end, so want to be able to be "silly" if the mood takes me. I totally agree that a SC can give the impression of a larger capacity engine, but they don't give that shove in the back "wallop" that a Turbo can give. As Lauren has already said, that wallop is not always a good thing. The more I think about this and the more I read, the more undecided I become. One thing's for sure ... The bottom end and lower CR opens up my options. I know.... Why don't I go StreetFX and just have both!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee 82 Report post Posted December 12, 2014 This ones at 400bhp (albeit on race fuel) The spec of the charger is 400ps of air at 110,000 rpm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
