How to select Exhaust Manifold

[matrixprotein 33]

Hi ladies and gentlemen new user but long time lurker and first post!

I am considering getting my 86 supercharged but am actually a noobie when it comes to mods.

I've done tonnes and tonnes of research often going back and forth with various bits and bobs but thought maybe its time I make a first post.

Anyways, I'm looking at the Fensport site and looking at the exhaust manifolds from Cobra and Ace and there is a huge price difference.

Here they are: 

Cobra: https://www.fensport.co.uk/parts/toyota/gt-86/zn6/exhaust-system/gt86-and-brz-cobra-4-1-uel-manifold/    - £705.60

Ace: https://www.fensport.co.uk/parts/toyota/gt-86/zn6/exhaust-system/ace-club-sport-400/ -    £1558.80

Aside from the fact that the Ace manifold has an over pipe, essentially what would I be paying the extra £853.20 to get? and is it worth the premium?

Ideally, I'd be keeping the car modest and not going too wild with power - below 300 bhp and using the car as a daily and just going on spirited drives.

THANKS!

MatrixProtein

[Kadaver 6]

Personally I think you should just contact @Mike@TD.co.uk for their NA kit. Best value for money in the GT86 scene when it comes down to manifolds and mapping etc.

[matrixprotein 33]

I'm a big fan of the Cosworth Supercharger; Would I be right in assuming that if I went for the TD NA kit, once going forced induction, I could go for the Cosworth at another tuner? Ofc if TD had the Cosworth, I'd do it all in house but I'm guessing I'd just have to re-buy the license again if I end up going to Fensport for the SC?

[Deacon 1357]

18 minutes ago, matrixprotein said:

I'm a big fan of the Cosworth Supercharger; Would I be right in assuming that if I went for the TD NA kit, once going forced induction, I could go for the Cosworth at another tuner? Ofc if TD had the Cosworth, I'd do it all in house but I'm guessing I'd just have to re-buy the license again if I end up going to Fensport for the SC?

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think you may have an issue with the TD manifold pipe in the engine bay getting closer than would be ideal to the cosworth set up.

[Delirious_ 13]

Skip the exhaust and go straight to supercharger.

[Kodename47 446]

If going SC, choose the exhaust setup wisely. The FA20Club manifold, sorry.... TD manifold, will likely encounter issues with the up and over pipework. With a PD blower a manifold isn't going to make such a large difference so personally I wouldn't necessarily go for a mega pricey one.

Might be worth giving @Mark@Abbey M/S a shout if you're around London as he's fitted different manifolds on their Harrop car.

[matrixprotein 33]

thanks for the reply guys! well I enquired about the Cosworth SC and was recommended to get the Ace manifold and pair it with a cobra exhaust. I do plan to do everything so weather I do the NA stuff first or FI first or all in one go, I will get there.

 

But I just thought, the Cobra manifold is £700 odd and their over pipe is £150 ish and thats a hell of a big difference to the £1500 for the Ace manifold.

Like if I can save a bit of money and the Cobra manifold and exhaust along with the Cosworth is enough, I'd be happy to save a couple quid. Unless someone has experience and justify the £700 extra lol.

@knightryder yeah a couple of my mates been down to Abbey MS but I think I have my heart set on the Cosworth.

[matrixprotein 33]

@knightryder what would you recommend as an exhaust set up for a SC. I'm not so clued up haha. As long as it's resonated I'm good and will look into it!

[Deacon 1357]

@matrixprotein you might want to speak to Rogue Motorsport about a manifold - their's would work well with an SC as it has no pipe up in the bay, has the quality of the Ace stuff and it makes big gains in power and torque while costing around £1000.

Have a look on my build thread here for some pictures

 

[matrixprotein 33]

damn deacon your setup looks the biz haha. will have a look at rogue now!

[surrey86 352]

2 hours ago, knightryder said:

If going SC, choose the exhaust setup wisely. The FA20Club manifold, sorry.... TD manifold, will likely encounter issues with the up and over pipework. With a PD blower a manifold isn't going to make such a large difference so personally I wouldn't necessarily go for a mega pricey one.

Might be worth giving @Mark@Abbey M/S a shout if you're around London as he's fitted different manifolds on their Harrop car.

The FA20Club manifold is a copy of a P&L, so don't give them credit! The up bend on the TD is actually noticeably different, having compared mine with others at sprints. It bends more to the drivers side of the engine and is closer to the coolant line. I'd be interested to know whether there would be any issues with it and Harrop superchargers etc though.

[will300 812]

I agree with @Delirious_, if your set on going supercharged within the next couple of months I'd buy the charger first and work from there.

Based on your usage, you won't feel the benefit of having both. For track usage, you definitely want a manifold. 

However if it's going to be like 2 years before you buy the supercharger, then definitely get an exhaust manifold.   

p.s. I've got an ACE CS400 manifold.

[BRZ-123 174]

13 hours ago, maurice said:

The FA20Club manifold is a copy of a P&L, so don't give them credit! The up bend on the TD is actually noticeably different, having compared mine with others at sprints. It bends more to the drivers side of the engine and is closer to the coolant line. I'd be interested to know whether there would be any issues with it and Harrop superchargers etc though.

FA20 was a copy of nameless, I thought. Having said this, up and over and the overpipe integration (like Ace) are the only two successful formulae. So, go for a manifold first only if you have a long wait before you go supercharged, as per the common advise. Another person you can ask is matt@cosworth as to what best suits their SC. They were going to halt production of SC, at least for a while I believe.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
 

[surrey86 352]

2 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

FA20 was a copy of nameless.
 

The nameless is significantly different, they might have had the up and over idea first though?

P&L is near identical to a fa20club and came first.

[BRZ-123 174]

3 hours ago, maurice said:

The nameless is significantly different, they might have had the up and over idea first though?
P&L is near identical to a fa20club and came first.

Agreed. It's a 4-2-1 not 4-1 but up and over is what I meant Also Cosworth use/recommend nameless and the OP had an interest in Cosworth. A up and over manifold like TD should work is my theory, but i am no expert.
 

Edited November 30, 2018 by BRZ-123

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

16 hours ago, matrixprotein said:

I'm a big fan of the Cosworth Supercharger; Would I be right in assuming that if I went for the TD NA kit, once going forced induction, I could go for the Cosworth at another tuner? Ofc if TD had the Cosworth, I'd do it all in house but I'm guessing I'd just have to re-buy the license again if I end up going to Fensport for the SC?

Once you've bought a license - it stays with the ECU. You wouldn't have to pay twice for a license when going forced induction.

 

You would need to pay for mapping costs though if having it custom tuned and not using an off the shelf tune.

 

We also have our manifolds in stock  

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[matrixprotein 33]

@Mike@TD.co.uk Would your NA kit be suitable with a Cosworth Supercharger?

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

9 minutes ago, matrixprotein said:

@Mike@TD.co.uk Would your NA kit be suitable with a Cosworth Supercharger?

It does fit yes sir.  

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Kodename47 446]

20 hours ago, matrixprotein said:

@knightryder yeah a couple of my mates been down to Abbey MS but I think I have my heart set on the Cosworth.

No reason they couldn't do the Cosworth, Mark's done a few now.

 

12 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Another person you can ask is matt@cosworth as to what best suits their SC. They were going to halt production of SC, at least for a while I believe.

The Cosworth SC will be ending production for good once they are done. Their manifod design was long runner:

But lets consider this, the standard stage 2 was deemed +60bhp, the 2.2 (Front Pipe Back) was +70bhp and stage 2.3 (long tube manifold) was +80bhp. So if you chose a non long tube runner you really aren't sacrificing much at all. What others don't consider is the OEM manifold heat shielding does help with heat management, going aftermarket and a supercharger I would ensure you have good heat protection. When NA the gains in the midrange will be less with one of the shorter designs but with a PD blower you're getting heaps more midrange anyway. Top end performance there will be little in it. Whilst I admit the peak manifold design is the Ace but I have never convinced myself the cost is worth it.

8 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Also Cosworth use/recommend nameless and the OP had an interest in Cosworth. A up and over manifold like TD should work is my theory, but i am no expert.

I doubt they would recommend Nameless with all the cracking issues they had with the manifolds.

[BRZ-123 174]

I doubt they would recommend Nameless with all the cracking issues they had with the manifolds.

Heat management with SC is something I am not sure about but being NA, I do not see any difference before and after manifold (TD) in coolant or engine oil temps. I cannot measure engine bay temp so cannot statistically say. All data from different days, different times, different duration of drive. Love your comprehensive responses DJ!

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

[matrixprotein 33]

thats actually news to me about them ending production. how comes this is the case? guess i better be quick about the set up i want lol

[Kodename47 446]

2 hours ago, matrixprotein said:

thats actually news to me about them ending production. how comes this is the case? 

They are stopping their work in aftermarket parts.

5 hours ago, BRZ-123 said:

Heat management with SC is something I am not sure about but being NA, I do not see any difference before and after manifold (TD) in coolant or engine oil temps. I cannot measure engine bay temp so cannot statistically say. 

The engine bay is pretty bad at getting the hot air out as it's pretty well sealed. The cooling system is good so coolant temps shouldn't take a hit and of the manifold isn't around the pan then oil temps are fine (some have claimed higher temps with manifold changes). However it is noticeably hot under the bonnet and many suggest this is one of the main killers of the coil packs..... hence it seems to happen to those who track their car. Add an extra radiator at the front for charge cooling and you add another heat source too. Lets put it this way, I am happy my setup still has a heat shield. That is a bigger plus to me than and extra 10bhp at my power level and £1000 in costs. If I tracked my car I'd also be spending money to keep things cooler over making it any "faster".

[BRZ-123 174]

13 hours ago, knightryder said:

They are stopping their work in aftermarket parts.

The engine bay is pretty bad at getting the hot air out as it's pretty well sealed. The cooling system is good so coolant temps shouldn't take a hit and of the manifold isn't around the pan then oil temps are fine (some have claimed higher temps with manifold changes). However it is noticeably hot under the bonnet and many suggest this is one of the main killers of the coil packs..... hence it seems to happen to those who track their car. Add an extra radiator at the front for charge cooling and you add another heat source too. Lets put it this way, I am happy my setup still has a heat shield. That is a bigger plus to me than and extra 10bhp at my power level and £1000 in costs. If I tracked my car I'd also be spending money to keep things cooler over making it any "faster".

The coil packs one is not consistent otherwise, with the number of TD's sold, would've come to light quite quickly as many track the car. A few here and there cannot directly be attributed to manifold, i guess. With FI, another radiator will cause additional engine bay temp is the right theory but hard to measure the problem it will cause as there are no statistical evidences. I agree to the principle though. The manufacturer could have saved costs by not having a heat shield but they did not go down that route and have clearly engineered it for a reason. 

[matrixprotein 33]

Thanks for all reply guys. Just received an email back from Cosworth and they only have about 5 supercharger kits left so after these sell up they wont be making anymore. sad times =( might have to be a sprintex for me now