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Lowering Advice

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What are folk running? Springs or Coilovers?

Dont think i can afford any time soon, if anyone is running springs whats is your experience? any good? recommendations?

Thanks

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Got 25 mm Teins no knocking or banging most people will say coilovers but I can't go any lower due to my driveway happy with what I've got basically a 50% difference in height

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I've been through 3 sets of coilovers, essentially upgrading each time.

The performance and comfort of more expensive coilovers is definitely worth the money and i wish i had just bought a set of Öhlins straight away instead of going for cheaper alternatives.

Other people recommend KW V3s and Bilstein B16s 

Personally i do not like springs as having been passenger in cars with them, the ride is made worse than the standard suspension (Which is actually quite good) 

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I have H&R Super Sport progressive springs with the stock dampers.  The total lowering is about 30-35mm, which is perfect for a car which is my daily driver.  The ride quality is a little firmer but really very good indeed and quite comfortable.  The car corners flat and there is no harshness or knocking over potholes.

I learned from my previous car that good springs are better than cheap coilovers.  I'll stand by that.

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Speaking of springs, I had a ride in @Mark-in-Stoke 86 the other day. He's had the new v2 Tuned/Eibach springs put in. Looks wise it's absolutely nuts, I mean properly aggressive and then some. But, oddly by some witchcraft it actually rides pretty well on the road too. I was expecting it to be super harsh, bottoming out the shocks every 30 seconds etc. But it doesn't - bare in mind Stoke has the worst condition roads ever, this was a huge surprise. Now, his car had Ohlins on previously. I'll let Mark fill you in on his conclusions, but suffice to say if mine wasn't a daily in need of some clearance and you're not going to track it, I'd get a set of those without a doubt. 

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Coilovers are better, definitely not a necessity, especially not for daily driving. Springs are a cheap alternative (Whiteline ones that we sell are only £114.47) that will suffice. Can't say I have experience with other springs, but I have Whiteline ones with Cusco Touring A adjustable Dampers and they are just fine. No knocks, ride is firmer, but nothing uncomfortable at the same time. You're probably best to come a meet and get a ride in cars with different suspension setups.

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The advantage of coilovers is the damper will be better matched to the spring rate, so they're usually more comfortable - lowering springs with OEM dampers tend to be underdamped which can make them bouncy or wallowy at speed.

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I have tein 25mm lowering springs comfort is ok over bumps etc (not really any worse than stock, but would agree they do feel like they bonce slightly at speed over small bumps in road (slight lack of dampening, more noticeable at rear than front and most noticeable at motorways speeds.

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Well, actually our stock suspension is with coilovers. Coils over dampers.

Of course, many think with term coilovers something specified narrower, aftermarket & adjustable.

As for what to choose .. i suggest better defining what are your goals/what you wish to change and state your budget.

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I've ridden in, driven a few cars with lowering springs, I've not been impressed by how it doesn't match the damping. I'm not sure what springs Litchfield use in their 'handling' kit, but they are not good. Litchfield really seem to know how to ruin handling but that's another story. 

I'd always go for coilovers. I've been really happy with TEIN Streetflex running custom spring rates of 5/6kg and EDFC Active Pro. Not cheap for the whole setup but they have been brilliantly reliable in the 80K miles I've had them on and the EDFC has been totally faultless. 

It depends what you want really. If you want looks then springs will suffice. If you want to move the handling up a level then decent coilovers are will achieve this over lowering springs with the fairly unimpressive stock dampers. 

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6 hours ago, Deacon said:

So you've got rid of the ohlins altogether @Mark-in-Stoke? What dampers are the lowering springs on - oem ones? 

No mate  I've still got them and just in the process of getting them resprung.

I had them removed when the car was with Rich at Tuneduk when he was resolving a bastard  of a groan coming from the car. Just part of the process of elimination really and I haven't got round to having them refitted yet as I've quite enjoyed trying these springs out. If you don't go on track and want low and still comfy these are a no brainer.

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Ive found eibach springs offer a really good halfway house of low looks, cheap price to try and reasonably comfy so far. Stock ride is firm so on poor surface maybe a tad more jittery. I've gone for coilovers and full suspension kits in the past and made things near enough unbearable and they were H&R or KW

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BTW, whichever one uses for lowering, be it springs or coilovers, suggest keeping lowering reasonable, within 1", not not fsck up suspension geometry. Otherwise one may need to buy more parts to fix illeffects and even so many things can be compromised on already rather low at stock car.

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14 hours ago, Lauren said:

I'm not sure what springs Litchfield use in their 'handling' kit, but they are not good. Litchfield really seem to know how to ruin handling but that's another story. 

You used to blame that on the ARBs, are you now blaming the springs? I've always said I'm happy with the springs on mine. Have yet to compare to them to "standard" Eibachs but certainly haven't been too harsh or anything on my car.

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Just now, knightryder said:

You used to blame that on the ARBs, are you now blaming the springs? I've always said I'm happy with the springs on mine. Have yet to compare to them to "standard" Eibachs but certainly haven't been too harsh or anything on my car.

The ARB's were an issue. Not really blaming the springs, but I wasn't impressed by the ride. It seemed mismatched to the damping. 

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The damping was revised for 2017 cars, I understand.  I can't speak for older cars but it seems pretty well matched to my H&Rs.  Certainly never wallowy, it holds the road really well at any speed.

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I think the stock suspension is pretty good, (many reviewers out there believe this to) if you pick a spring without silly spring rates you can't go far wrong. I went for Tein Luxury Masters as the spring rate was the closest I could find to stock, which will obviously help keep within the spec of the dampers and keeps the same handling characteristics as stock. This is the only car I've owned which hasn't had aftermarket coilovers and I'm more than happy with the results.

If you are purely lowering your car for aesthetics and want to keep the drop moderate (i.e. less than 35mm) then it would be silly to spend a load of cash on a set of adjustable coilovers.

 

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1 hour ago, Varelco said:

I think the stock suspension is pretty good, (many reviewers out there believe this to) if you pick a spring without silly spring rates you can't go far wrong. I went for Tein Luxury Masters as the spring rate was the closest I could find to stock, which will obviously help keep within the spec of the dampers and keeps the same handling characteristics as stock. This is the only car I've owned which hasn't had aftermarket coilovers and I'm more than happy with the results.

If you are purely lowering your car for aesthetics and want to keep the drop moderate (i.e. less than 35mm) then it would be silly to spend a load of cash on a set of adjustable coilovers.

 

I haven't lowered my car yet but when/if I do it will just be springs, and purely for aesthetic reasons. The only time I go for coilovers in when the car is older, it's easier to justify new dampers then as when they are 10+ years old they are bound to have seen better days. The only other time I might is it if it were a dedicated track car, but my car is a daily and I just don't see the point in spending loads of extra cash on what is already a good package out of the box. 

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I vote Racecomp engineering yellow springs. They actually had the damper on a shock dyno before design the springs.... and they are eibach so good quality items. 

The american red Eibach springs that come with bumpstops are also good. Well know and decent driver DAVE-ROR (ft86club mod) shaved 2 seconds off his lap fitting those. 

Too soft is worse for ride as the car hits bumpstops otherwise. Grip wise the stock strut benefits from a stiffer spring up front as you get less roll and thus maintain more camber. 

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I vote Racecomp engineering yellow springs. They actually had the damper on a shock dyno before design the springs.... and they are eibach so good quality items. 
The american red Eibach springs that come with bumpstops are also good. Well know and decent driver DAVE-ROR (ft86club mod) shaved 2 seconds off his lap fitting those. 
Too soft is worse for ride as the car hits bumpstops otherwise. Grip wise the stock strut benefits from a stiffer spring up front as you get less roll and thus maintain more camber. 
I've had these fitted and although I can't comment on handling yet (waiting for geo to be sorted) I can say that I'm pleasantly surprised that the ride is still similarly comfortable to stock.

One thing that I'm not sure about is whether the car looks like it's any lower... maybe it's just an expectation thing, but it looks roughly the same as it did before to my eyes.

fd2477e56d8ecfac75156c742fba3cae.jpg

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

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mattt you might find that over time you will drop a few more mm as they springs settle and age,  but you are right its doesn't look that much different. Then again it also depends on how flat the road is its parked on and your wheel tyre combo. Mine can look stock on uneven ground.

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mattt you might find that over time you will drop a few more mm as they springs settle and age,  but you are right its doesn't look that much different. Then again it also depends on how flat the road is its parked on and your wheel tyre combo. Mine can look stock on uneven ground.
Could the springs be installed incorrectly?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, mattt said:

Could the springs be installed incorrectly?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

Just let it settle. Give it  bit of time to do that and get that geo done as it will be miles out. :)

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