Tim86's Journal - Silver 86 AT - DD & occasional track (East of England)

[Tim86 24]

2.5 years ago i bought a 62 plate GT86 with in Silver 50k on the clock. I wanted a change and to be a bit different, plus i live in a city centre (Norwich) so i went for an Auto.  Usually I'd avoid AT on most cars but I heard this box was actually pretty good with intelligent down shifting and whatnot. I paid 15k in the end (only 6k over original car budget). The car was advertised much cheaper than all the others at the time due to mileage, so the perfect culprit for a project build.  The car also had a good service record (RRG Macclesfield & Bolton) and no initial issues besides an exhaust rattle that was fixed at 10k miles.

As this would be my first build i did a lot of reading up on the car and various mods, and spent a good amount of time with it stock so that i could get to know the vehicle as a daily, and decide whether i was happy with my decision before i put any money into it!

Flash forward one year and i had my first full service to take care of. Thanks to lurking on these forums and reading up about their race car, i then decided to pay the guys at Fensport a visit, only an hour down the road so would be rude not to .

I had the service done with no issues, turns out this was the first time they had done a 60k service, so i was delighted to be the guinea pig! Everything went without a hitch. All the guys are super friendly and enthusiastic. First impressions is this is how a business should be run! I discussed with them my plan for NA tuning + FD mod. Also opted for the HKS panel filter and HKS spark plugs for the service. All good stuff!

The plan now was as follows: 4.67 FD, manifold, remap and license.

- FD for torque/improved 0-60

- Remap + HKS EL catless manifold to address the torque dip

- Suspension to improve stability and handling

This is the arguably the best bang-for-buck option and should be the go-to for anybody who wants a relatively low cost transformation. The next step was going to be  new wheels, rubber and suspension.

Happy with the service and eager to do more, we booked in the above for a couple months time, but unfortunately i had some personal issues pop up and we had to cancel . Turns out i would not get around to doing anything with the car until 2017! 

February:

During February i decide to start looking around again for wheels as i can't stand the OEM any longer, that and I'd need wider rubber for more power in future anyway. Granted Silver is not a popular car color choice but it actually has potential to look really clean if you pair it with the right wheels & mods. This is by no means an easy task, anything glossy outside of black clashes in my opinion and most colors/finishes just don't sit right. Black is also just a little too dark in contrast to the silver imo and looks better on a black or grey car.

After plenty of poking around i realize that I'm pretty much limited to Matte Gray, Gunmetal could in theory be an alternative option but can look cheap and tacky on some wheels in my opinion (Rota). I also saw a some forgestar in a dark midnight blue that looked really mean with a silver BRZ, so that color might be an option some day if i get bored.

After a fair few restless nights browsing wheels and fitments i stumble across this on the usa forums:

Gram Lights 57C6 18x9.5 +40 'Matte Graphite'

Just what i was looking for. Looks like he decision has been made. However, i contacted the UK distributor only to find that these have been discontinued! I then spend a good couple weeks (!) poking around and come across a small lesser-known company in the USA and look what they have:

Vordoven Forme 6 18x95 +38!

There is a god! A very cruel one who will later sting me roughly £500 on shipping and fees . Although i decided it was worth it when i stumbled across a thread where a guy tried out four different made in usa 'replica' wheels over the course of a year and voted these to be the best by a long shot and turns out the weight isn't far off the Rays either, practically the same in fact. Also no cheap Taiwanese jobby here so i was sold.

March:

Wheels & Yokohama Advan Sport V105 245/35 square setup are ready to go on. Luckily I managed to take this all to the fitting place in one trip! As you can see below four new tyres and wheels of this size will only just fit in the car.

TA-DA! All balanced and fitted by the guys at STS Tyre pros in Norwich, doesn't it look fresh.

I can confirm that this size and offset will only just fit without rubbing on stock suspension, if it wasn't for the mild tyre stretch the front would most definitely rub against the spring. Also worth noting that the wheel caps actually match the color of the body paint too which is a nice touch.

April:

Suspension time..

So i did a lot of research here- I wanted a nicely balanced & silent coilover setup for fast road & track at a reasonable price. I also wanted a mono-tube damper setup rather than a twin tube, plenty of details online between the pros and cons for both types. The Tein Flex A was my second choice as it was a twin tube.

I ended up opting for a set of MeisterR ZetaCRD+ mono-tube dampers and an Eibach rear LCA kit. If you want to go a little more track-focused then heavy duty anti-roll bars would compliment this setup very well, and i will be doing so in good time.

So with these coilovers the spring rate is a bit more sensible than that of other popular solutions. With front at 5kg/mm, rear 4kg/mm
These are designed to be a good fast road setup with enough damping adjustment for occasional track day use.
Front top mount is spherical bearing with camber adjustments.
The rear top mount is rubber insulated press steel to reduce possible road noise.
These are 32 stage damping adjustable mono-tube dampers (compression & rebound combined).

The spring rates of the ZetaCRD+ come out at 5/4 is because of the vehicle dynamic calculation that they do. On the GT86, when you are on the low end of spring rates for fast road, a 5/5 setup is a bit too close between the front and the rear so you could hit a harmonic frequency. The choice then is either 5/4, or 6/5. So they opted for the 5/4 in the end because it suits the requirements of a balanced fast road & track car better.

Pictures of them fitted on the car below, 5mm pre-load at the rear and id say 35-40mm drop all round, i would not go lower as i've already had a few scrapes on speed bumps . Camber at approx -1.5 all round definitely gives the desired aesthetic (yes i do need SS lines).

:

It has totally transformed the ride! Tight, responsive, nimble and composed through the twisties. Feels like a totally different car in many respects now, the grip is insane on NA but doesn't feel bogged down at all once aligned correctly.

For those worried about running a desired 9.5J aesthetic due to weight, just do it. I read a really informative article where different sizes and weights were tested and there was literally a couple tenths of a second difference on a track at most, and i know that most of you wont be building a fully stripped out race car ;).

I'm running damping at 18 clicks from soft front and rear, 16 was a little too soft.
Even though it is stiffer and lower I find the ride to be just as comfortable as stock in my opinion. Everything that I was told was correct, these are the coilovers to go for if you want to upgrade for occasional track without sacrificing too much comfort on the road.  Thoroughly impressed. If you have any further questions be sure to hit up Jerrick at MeisterR, he knows his stuff.

Coming Soon: FI and more!

 

[Tim86 24]

April (continued):

Interior bits!

Now that the wheels and suspension is on it's time to add some subtle touches to the interior. 

Thanks to the taobao asian markets i settle for some brushed steel AC knobs & gauge trim, 'T-Carbon' flappy paddle extensions and steering wheel badge. The latter is discontinued but luckily some dude in asia was selling one that he had never installed.

The gauge rings were the hardest to install due to a little bit of brute force being required to remove the top section of the dash. However, it was relatively simple, only requires a screwdriver and there are several videos on youtube.

Although this is just the start for my interior, the result already transforms the feel inside the cabin.

[Tim86 24]

Reserved for updates

[Tim86 24]

Reserved for updates

[Tim86 24]

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[Tim86 24]

Reserved for updates

[Tim86 24]

Journal entry added: Interior bits

9/5/14 @ 14:10

[Tareim 343]

Those carbon paddles look much better than the ally ones I bought for mine and they look like they actually fit properly

[Cerastes 204]

Nice good read, I read it all... test me go on 

I have the same air con controls on mine  I also put a bit of Carbon fibre effect above them where the hazard light button is. I thought about the Gauge rings too; tempted on them. Agree on Fensport too, wonderful service. 

Keep us updated on the Meister R's, I'm really tempted by them even though I don't track the car (yet... however the £800 or so is a lot for me). 

[Deacon 1357]

15 hours ago, Tim86 said:

These are 32 stage damping adjustable mono-tube dampers (compression & rebound combined).

The spring rates of the ZetaCRD+ come out at 5/4 is because of the vehicle dynamic calculation that they do. On the GT86, when you are on the low end of spring rates for fast road, a 5/5 setup is a bit too close between the front and the rear so you could hit a harmonic frequency. The choice then is either 5/4, or 6/5. So they opted for the 5/4 in the end because it suits the requirements of a balanced fast road & track car better.

Car's looking very good and I'm looking forwards to reading your further updates.

Just a couple of points on the suspension - the damping won't really do anything below 16 clicks from fully stiff - it's pretty much as soft as it'll get at this point (this comes from Black Art Designs who help design the Meister R stuff from when I had it on my car briefly).

The spring rates they've used now will tend to make the car understeer quite a bit as the suspension design on the 86 means that the front spring rate has an effective rate of 0.925 on the front and 0.75 on the rear if I remember correctly (so front will equate to 4.23 and rear to 2.25). Stock  (up to the 2017) is 2.3kg front and 3.8 rear (again, iirc) which equates to 1.97 front and 2.14 rear. So stock is slightly rear biased whereas the Meister R set up is quite front biased which will equate to understeer so a stiffer rear ARB would be a good idea to try to restore the stock balance.

The main reason for the softer spring rate at the rear I'd suggest is road comfort rather than ride frequencies as the suspension at the rear is rather space limited.

[Tim86 24]

2 hours ago, Tareim said:

Those carbon paddles look much better than the ally ones I bought for mine and they look like they actually fit properly

They do! I had the same problem with those so I opted for these. In my opinion it was well worth it and I'm very satisfied with them. Being carbon they are a little more expensive,  but entirely worth it imo as you'll stare at them all the time. 

[Cerastes 204]

46 minutes ago, Deacon said:

Car's looking very good and I'm looking forwards to reading your further updates.

Just a couple of points on the suspension - the damping won't really do anything below 16 clicks from fully stiff - it's pretty much as soft as it'll get at this point (this comes from Black Art Designs who help design the Meister R stuff from when I had it on my car briefly).

The spring rates they've used now will tend to make the car understeer quite a bit as the suspension design on the 86 means that the front spring rate has an effective rate of 0.95 on the front and 0.76 on the rear if I remember correctly (so front will equate to 4.75 and rear to 3.04). Stock  (up to the 2017) is 2.3kg front and 3.8 rear (again, iirc) which equates to 2.2 front and 2.8 rear. So stock is slightly rear biased whereas the Meister R set up is quite front biased which will equate to understeer so a stiffer rear ARB would be a good idea to try to restore the stock balance.

The main reason for the softer spring rate at the rear I'd suggest is road comfort rather than ride frequencies as the suspension at the rear is rather space limited.

Maybe I don't want the Meister R's then  Just keep it stock then, I like the back end coming out  

[Tim86 24]

1 hour ago, Deacon said:

Car's looking very good and I'm looking forwards to reading your further updates.

Just a couple of points on the suspension - the damping won't really do anything below 16 clicks from fully stiff - it's pretty much as soft as it'll get at this point (this comes from Black Art Designs who help design the Meister R stuff from when I had it on my car briefly).

The spring rates they've used now will tend to make the car understeer quite a bit as the suspension design on the 86 means that the front spring rate has an effective rate of 0.95 on the front and 0.76 on the rear if I remember correctly (so front will equate to 4.75 and rear to 3.04). Stock  (up to the 2017) is 2.3kg front and 3.8 rear (again, iirc) which equates to 2.2 front and 2.8 rear. So stock is slightly rear biased whereas the Meister R set up is quite front biased which will equate to understeer so a stiffer rear ARB would be a good idea to try to restore the stock balance.

The main reason for the softer spring rate at the rear I'd suggest is road comfort rather than ride frequencies as the suspension at the rear is rather space limited.

You just pointed out a typo actually, I'm 18 clicks from soft, not stiff (doh). Although it's interesting to hear that anything on that side of 16 isn't going to do much. 

Thanks for the tips, looks like my next step will be a stiffer rear ARB. Assuming I'll have to get tracking done again on the rear once fitted. 

Just out of curiosity, what setup did you opt for when coming from MeisterR? And were you on Zetacrd,  Zetacrd+ or their GTs? 

[Tim86 24]

22 hours ago, Cerastes said:

Maybe I don't want the Meister R's then  Just keep it stock then, I like the back end coming out  

I'd actually go so far as to say that if you want comfort on British roads, this is still the setup to go for, as you can rely on a stiffer ARB to get the desired handling characteristics. Yes it's an old school rally style approach but you have to bear in mind that we have terrible roads in the UK whereas in places like the USA market (where the majority of performance coilovers are sold)  the roads are mostly flat and smooth. Hence the tendency for insanely stiff rates on many 'fast road' coilover setups today. 

[Cerastes 204]

More comfortable than the stock springs? I always thought coilovers were harder as they are aimed at semi racing/semi road or full racing. 

[Deacon 1357]

6 minutes ago, Tim86 said:

Just out of curiosity, what setup did you opt for when coming from MeisterR? And were you on Zetacrd,  Zetacrd+ or their GTs? 

I was on the GT's and then the Zeta R's as a get me home suspension for a few weeks. I went to the Tein Flex A's afterwards which were a night and day improvement over the Meister R's. I think @don had a set of the CRD's fitted recently but is moving to the Flex A's too I believe (apologies if I'm mixing you up with someone else @don and you weren't who I was talking to at the TD meet!)

[Tim86 24]

Just now, Deacon said:

I was on the GT's and then the Zeta R's as a get me home suspension for a few weeks. I went to the Tein Flex A's afterwards which were a night and day improvement over the Meister R's. I think @don had a set of the CRD's fitted recently but is moving to the Flex A's too I believe (apologies if I'm mixing you up with someone else @don and you weren't who I was talking to at the TD meet!)

Interesting, as stated I too was interested in the flex A but they weren't mono tubes and £300 more expensive. I believe those are a 6k/6k setup?  

[Deacon 1357]

Yes they are 6/6 as standard although it's better not to get hung up on spring rate as the damping has a massive role to play. They're twin tubes which is one of the reasons they ride so well (twin tubes have a better ride than monotubes usually) along with the hydraulic bump stop system they use.

[Deacon 1357]

Apologies in that I'd forgotten to square the wheel rate figures so I've done that now.

For reference the 6/6 set up gives 5.13 front and 3.34 rear so also front biased.

[Cerastes 204]

@Deacon Are you a Tein salesman, I'm sold... *looks up prices of Flex A's* 

[Deacon 1357]

Just now, Cerastes said:

@Deacon Are you a Tein salesman, I'm sold... *looks up prices of Flex A's* 

Haha! No. I've just been through quite a few suspension set ups and of the ones I've tried the flex a seemed the best road biased set up. I've only tried 6 setups so this isn't conclusive by any means though and is just my experience and opinion!

[DanJ 374]

If you want to have a play about with spring and ARB rates this spreadsheet I made should come in handy:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87478421/GT86 and BRZ Spring and ARB Rate Comparison.xlsx

As Deacon pointed out you really need to convert spring rates in to wheel rates to understand the difference in steady-state cornering balance you get with different setups.

Happy to answer any questions you might have about how the spreadsheet works.

[Lauren 2259]

2 hours ago, Cerastes said:

Maybe I don't want the Meister R's then  Just keep it stock then, I like the back end coming out  

Or go for 5/6kg spring rates as I did. Makes it a bit more pointy than stock and with negative camber and a slight reduction in rear toe, there is no understeer at all. 

I must admit, I don't get why some aftermarket coilovers thinking HKS and Meister R go for a softer rear. But I guess they err on the safe handling side which may be preferable for some, though I'm no fan of understeer myself. 

[Tim86 24]

1 hour ago, Deacon said:

Yes they are 6/6 as standard although it's better not to get hung up on spring rate as the damping has a massive role to play. They're twin tubes which is one of the reasons they ride so well (twin tubes have a better ride than monotubes usually) along with the hydraulic bump stop system they use.

I was told the hydraulic bump stops are not needed in those mono-tubes, that only benefits a twin tube design. I guess that's a reason why the flex A's are a fair bit more expensive. Fair play though, a great choice from what i've heard.

[Lauren 2259]

Hydro bump stops are a nice addition to the Flex A's. I have the older Flex (been on my car for over three years and 70K miles now). I'm guessing you were told they don't need them because they don't have them. It's a bit of a USP for the Flex A's. 

In regard to spring rates, I was able to spec my own spring rates and also had the rear dampers shimmed to increase the damping by 20%. It's the personalised touch I value.