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Go for the rayland kit that myself and @will300 has. I will let you know what they are like on track at the end of the month! Its a good price option, but you will need spacers for a sock wheel at a guess!

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55 minutes ago, TTR said:

Yup, I think it's pretty much the STI Brembo setup. But using new Calipers instead of having to ebay some old ones haha. 

http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/big-brake-kits-/332-subaru-brz-front-brembo-330mm-4-pot-kit-.html

How come they are so cheap? Am I missing something. 

Something with similar sizes is almost double? 

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3 minutes ago, Cerastes said:

How come they are so cheap? Am I missing something. 

Something with similar sizes is almost double? 

Presume the AP Caliper is a lot more expensive. Godspeed to a BBK with the CP9040 6 Pot AP caliper and it's an extra £500, apart from that there isn't really a difference in the kits. Same discs and Pads, but obviously different carriers for the caliper.

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@TTR well AP racing for a 332mm front disc 4 pot (so similar? Brembo is 330mm and 4pot) on amber the AP Racing is around £2350. 

The Brembo Gran Turismo on amber are £3000! but they are different sizes. 

Stop Tech on Fensport 328mm and 4 pot are £2000

The only BBK I have seen that are similar price is the K-Sport. Brembo is a big name too.  

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11 minutes ago, Cerastes said:

@TTR well AP racing for a 332mm front disc 4 pot (so similar? Brembo is 330mm and 4pot) on amber the AP Racing is around £2350. 

The Brembo Gran Turismo on amber are £3000! but they are different sizes. 

Stop Tech on Fensport 328mm and 4 pot are £2000

The only BBK I have seen that are similar price is the K-Sport. Brembo is a big name too.  

Some of the cost difference will be the discs, bells and mounts. Some of the Reyland/Godspeed kits use their own brand ones. But I dunno where the huge coat difference is dude, I don't work for Brembo or AP Racing haha :lol:

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Just now, TTR said:

Some of the cost difference will be the discs, bells and mounts. Some of the Reyland/Godspeed kits use their own brand ones. But I dunno where the huge coat difference is dude, I don't work for Brembo or AP Racing haha :lol:

Haha that's ok, I was hoping someone could see something that I am missing. I noticed they use their own discs. 

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8 minutes ago, Deacon said:

That does seem very good.

Been very tempted, but more grip is in order! Also I think maybe I should go 356mm to be on the safe side haha.

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3 hours ago, Rich196 said:

Go for the rayland kit that myself and @will300 has. I will let you know what they are like on track at the end of the month! Its a good price option, but you will need spacers for a sock wheel at a guess!

Do you have front and back, or just front? BBK is potentially something I'll do before too long.

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I suggest if fitting on just front BBK only, then buy kits, that are especially designed for such configuration, to not shift front-rear brake bias. While with fitting BBK just front one may fix one of deficiencies of stock brakes - increase heat capacity, as fronts are doing main braking anyway, there is also chance to make braking itself worse, if bias is shifted a lot. For example lock one end of car much sooner, while other end still is underbraked, increase rate of tire/brake wear, interfer with electronic nannies, or add instability when braking, if ABS is off. Better not. LOL, and there i'm back with suggesting again Essex Sprint kit, that, like their Endurance kit too, is made to match stock brakes in rear with same brake bias. :)

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That Godspeed Brembo kit is a smaller caliper than the STI brembos that are a popular swap for our cars. Its a smaller cheaper calipers and the discs are Godspeed.

Godspeed disc are good value but the vanes are not curved so wont cool as well as AP/Stoptech/brembo aftermarket discs that have curved vanes. According to AP racing their curved vane discs dissipate 30% more heat than straight vaned discs. 

I would expect these have same size pistons as the STI brembos so bias will go forward a bit. Mostly people dont have an issue with it though.

Not saying they are a bad choice just be aware. 

 

@Church those essex kits are not suitable for UK roads. The Road and track kits with aluminium pistons, rubber boots, paint finish, anti rattle shims ect are far more suitable for our salty winter roads.

 

 

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Ade: but IIRC he started seeking more capable alternatives, because he hit limitations for track use. And rubber dust boots .. on heavy braking at track they can soon be burnt off anyway .. due heat/temperatures caliper paint also fades by time. I'd maybe just more often pressure-wash them, but that kit by price/performance/capabilities still looks #1 in my eyes. IIRC some of Essex users were from Canada too, where also salt in winters gets used on roads, and mentioned just more frequent washing.

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1 hour ago, Church said:

Ade: but IIRC he started seeking more capable alternatives, because he hit limitations for track use. And rubber dust boots .. on heavy braking at track they can soon be burnt off anyway .. due heat/temperatures caliper paint also fades by time. I'd maybe just more often pressure-wash them, but that kit by price/performance/capabilities still looks #1 in my eyes. IIRC some of Essex users were from Canada too, where also salt in winters gets used on roads, and mentioned just more frequent washing.

Rubber boots can burn on stock brakes with a lot of heat yes, but a 330x28 or bigger disc and N/A you wont have a problem unless perhaps endurance racing. 

I know and have spoken to Peter Collin of AP racing UK. He does not recommend competition kits for UK roads and is adamant their road kits can hold up to track abuse due to the oversized disc. I myself have done 6 trackdays on my AP racing kit and I've been able to use a street pad whereas on stock I had to use Clubracers (and ruined my dust boots) to avoid brake fade. 

Plenty of people on ft86club (who you like to quote so much) use the formula kits and not one has burned the dust boots. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Church said:

Ade: but IIRC he started seeking more capable alternatives, because he hit limitations for track use. And rubber dust boots .. on heavy braking at track they can soon be burnt off anyway .. due heat/temperatures caliper paint also fades by time. I'd maybe just more often pressure-wash them, but that kit by price/performance/capabilities still looks #1 in my eyes. IIRC some of Essex users were from Canada too, where also salt in winters gets used on roads, and mentioned just more frequent washing.

IIRC the guys selling the Essex kits in the states have been quite open with people about how quickly they corrode with any salt exposure. They simply arnt the right kit for anyone over here unless the car is track only, and even then driving to a track in winter could be problematic.

i can second what Ade has said with the AP road kit in that it is flawless on both road and track. No brake fade experienced since the kit went on >6 months ago.

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Sorry to bring up an old thread, after taking the car on track a few weeks ago and today my pedal sank to the floor and the car didn't slow as I would've liked, I'm keen to change the pads. A few of you mentioned that you were thinking of trying the Yellow Stuff pads and I wondered if anyone actually had and could give me an opinion on them. I've seen the Ferodo DS2500 and Cosworth street masters are popular but with so many options it's hard to pick. So please can I have some suggestions on what you would feel most appropriate for me, I am looking for a more track focused pad but want it to work well from cold for the road. 

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Sighe98: cold stops are not that much of an issue to care about. Yes, many track pads have noticeably higher friction when heated up to working temps .. but many of them have higher Mu then stock pads even when cold. Main issues with track pads on street are noise & wear. Mostly because of hard to bed them when driving on public roads (hard to get enough heat in them when driving within legal limits), thus they in 1-3 days after track with light braking of daily driving scrub off bedded layer .. and at every stop one becomes idiot with unbearably loud brakes and also rotors may get worn at increased rates.

As for DS2500 with Cosworth street masters .. i never tried later, but from googled nfo they seem even less track capable positioned then former, but cheaper. None of these are proper track pads, but from these two i'd lean to DS2500 if (light) track use is planned too. Also .. "pedal sank to the floor" .. isn't it more issue of fluid with air in it, not pads? Flush it with some motul rbf600 or rbf660 with properly bleeding out air from system.

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Got DS2500's on the 86, wouldn't recommend. Think the DS might stand for Dog Shite :lol:

Would recommend Project Mu HC800's for pads if you've got £300 to spend, on the cheaper end of the scale most people seem to get away with PFC Z fronts and EBC Yellow rears which would set you back just over £100. What you need pad wise totally depends on how hard you drive haha. And as church said, change your fluid to something more track capable (Personally I'm a big fan of Millers Racing 300) as that's what generally causes pedal to the floor.

RE track pads on the road, I daily drove the BRZ with track orientated pads (Project Mu Clubracers) and didn't find the squeak too bad at all. I was also surprised how good the initial bite was at cold temperatures. 

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I ran Project Mu HC800 for my last set of pads. Better than stock on track, they have really good feel. They can squeal a fair bit on the road. They create huge amounts of brake dust. Two trackdays, five sprints and around 15K miles saw off the front set. Rears need replacing imminently. I've ultimately ended up going for AP four pots on the front as I still found I ran out of brakes on track even with the Projet Mu's. 

They are okay when cold, but not amazing. They imprrove considerably once you have stopped a few times with some pressure. So not as good as stock pads are. 

If I still had stock brakes I would go for the PFC fronts and EBC yellow rears. I admit I haven't tried them though. 

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Thanks guys, I've had a look into the Project Mu HC800 and they seem to get a great write up although they aren't cheap. So for the moment I think I'll get a set of the PFC fronts and Yellow stuff for the rear. Parts box rate the PFC as being arguably the best street/fast road pad for our cars so they must be good! I'm also keen on Yellow stuff as that's what we use in our MX5 for racing. If I feel I need anything more and have saved up some more I'll get the Project Mu HC800. 

The AP kit Lauren mentioned is something I'm interested in doing soon, I found that at Castle Combe the car couldn't scrub enough speed off into quarry corner and resulted in understeering lots on entry. I ended up having to brake before Avon Rise, accelerate over the rise and brake again, something I didn't expect I'd have to do with this car and costing me lots of time, although it was giving passenger laps for charity so I probably shouldn't have been pushing in way aha. 

I do apologise for my pedal sinking comment relating to brake pads, of course its fluid related, what a rookie comment. The pedal seemed to be a lot better when driving it today, perhaps it's self adjusted. However I may try the Millers racing 300 which TTR mentioned, again we run this in the Mazda and it transformed it! 

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Some trivia.

Better fluid will not differ a slightest bit in braking feel to stock fluid. It will just carry that feel even at hotter temps (in other words - also for longer) due not boiling yet. You get same braking until fluid is boiled, when incompressible fluid turns to gas/vapour bubbles, which are compressible, and hence your mushy feel with less press force on pads delivered per same brake pedal travel, "soft pedal", "brake fade", etc. "Racing fluids" simply have higher boiling temps and that's it. (unfortunately such fluids also are more hygroscopic, and by time may have some water (of low boiling temps) absorbed and worsening overall temps, hence they often have specced "dry" temps of fresh fluid and lower "wet" temps if 3.7% of volume is absorbed water, and they may warrant more frequent change of brake fluid due more absorption, even if you have never boiled it).

Of course if brake pads are way overheated past their design temp range, they can add to brake loss too, eg. pad material may crumple off, may chemically change, may glaze .. reducing their friction coefficient/Mu. Some resurfacing may help, but in general better to ease off their abuse (by eg. shorter track sessions with cooloffs in between), or choose pads whose working temp range by material properties better fits intended scenario of use.

Another ways to enhance brake capabilities is to increase their heat capacity and/or enhance cooling. Usually Big Brake Kits do both, by having larger rotors of better vanes design, so ones that can accumulate more heat prior heating up to some temperature, also dissipating more & quicker heat off, better caliper design can enhance cooling too. Also there is option of airducts, that direct air to brakes, further enhancing cooling of them. (of course, one should remember, that if one is capable of locking tires with brakes one has now on car with current tires, then "braking force" is sufficient for those tires, and BBK won't decrease braking distance even slightest. It's heat capacity & cooling, that is enhanced in BBKs, in other words - it lets you have same sufficient braking force for longer. Not eg. some 10min sessions with stock brakes, but eg. 20-30mins. Braking distance will be enhanced with BBKs only if tires used are of that much of grip, for stock brakes max braking be less of that max tire grip. Though stock brakes can still be used if one uses pads of higher friction/Mu).

Longer track sessions, grippier tires, forced induction - are all bits that increase speed, and thus speed to shed off prior turns, and thus heat that is put into brakes. So often people upgrade to BBKs due those 3 things (well, i left out case when stock brakes are clearly subpar/inadequate). There is bit that one may get by using less capable pads with BBKs though, due their enhanced cooling and more heat capacity with rest, except brakes, being same. Temps are lower, so you may get by pads of less max temps. Temps are lower, and it's harder to bed pads or get upto most efficient working temps. So be careful with taking into account experiences with some pads from people with BBKs if you are searching pads for stock brakes. Some less track oriented pads may have worked better for them on track, and vice versa, some pads that didn't squeel for one with stock brakes, may get squeeky loud for one with BBK, due harder to bed those pads due less temps. There is also bit that not all cars have stock brakes adequate for them. Eg. our stock brakes are imho rather good for mass our cars have .. but eg. i've heard that S2000 has a bit underbraked stockers. That also may mean that S2K will benefit of pads of more track oriented types if used with stock brakes .. or that one needs to be careful when listening advices like "we used pads X with great success on <insert other cars, like bmws/subarus/hondas/mazdas/etc here>".

If one seriously got track illness and hones ones skills frequently, and gradually introduces some upgrades, such as grippier tires, and gets better and better laptimes, faster speeds, better braking skills, i've heard such view on pad choice:

Quote

As a rule of thumb, if you're getting 4 days out of a pad, you're pad is roughly matched to your setup/driving/experience on the FRS/BRZ. If you're getting more, you should stay where you are, or possibly move down a compound, depending on wear. If you're getting less, you need to move up compounds, and/or get a BBK, and/or get ducting.

Regarding stock brakes of twins .. they are regarded as rather good for stock (wrx has same fronts, but is heavier and faster due forced induction. On last track day i could go all day long with apropriate cooling off between sessions, but wrx's of my colegue brakes literary caught fire on 4th lap that day and was towed off track. Admittedly he also had better tires though.). With stock brakes, just with better pads and fluid, one should be ok with ~ 10-13min track sessions on stock primacies or slightly grippier tires (of course, wide tires, cheater tires like RE71R, or slicks, will change the picture). Also for twins on dry tarmac track one may think of using pedal dance, to switch off TC/e-diff & EBD, leaving just basic ABS, as first one had impacted for some pad wear or sometimes worked at wrong times throwing off balance a bit, and EBD may make trail braking harder.

Also when/if considering purchase of BBK .. worth considering: 1) for kit to be designed for this car. Don't go for cheap route of retrofitting brakes from other cars. They have different front-rear weight distribution & grip bias, different ratio brake cylinders diameters, so you may shift brake bias/balance, as result having worse braking of longer distance or less safe one (if one of ends locks way before other end is close to locking), it may also impact proper working of safety aids/nannies. BTW, this is also reason for one to use same compound pads on both front & rear, to not shift bias. Yes, rears probably will wear at 1/4 the rate of fronts, but bias is important for most optimal & safe braking. Only if you have very specific aero on one end, i'd think of staggered pad choice to workaround that. 2) wheel fitment (get brake fitment templates for that BBK and check if your wheels will clear those brakes w/o rubbing), 3) optionally how common brake pad shapes are used (to have or not have different compound pad aternatives for those), 4) how cheap are pads/rotors for that BBK (if track use is intended, imho it's important to be able to save on wearables), 5) how usable or not are those brakes on street (if dual-use intended. Eg. two-piece rotors or calipers w/o dustboots may be bad fit corrosion-wise where salt in winters gets sprayed on streets. But then again if one uses brakes as intended on track, then it's very easy to burn off rubber dustboots)

And in general for track use better to choose rotors that are blanks (non slotted, non drilled) or slotted at most. There is little to be had from claimed enhanced cooling of drilled rotors, and imho extra leading edges of drilled/slotted rotors don't offer enough gains to be justified with reducing reliability. Brakes are car system, and track is place, which/where you never want to reduce reliability. Drilled rotors are much more susceptible to cracking, and in general "show off" thing, not thing to be used in sports.

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12 hours ago, Sighe98 said:

I do apologise for my pedal sinking comment relating to brake pads, of course its fluid related, what a rookie comment. The pedal seemed to be a lot better when driving it today, perhaps it's self adjusted. However I may try the Millers racing 300 which TTR mentioned, again we run this in the Mazda and it transformed it! 

if you have boiled the fluids then normal braking will still feel ok up to a certain point and then the pedal will just go to the floor again (under heavy braking) I've currently got that on my vx220, boiled the brakes at curborough and for just driving around town the brakes are fine but if I have to emergency brake  I'd be opting to use the handbrake to try and stop in time

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2 hours ago, Tareim said:

if you have boiled the fluids then normal braking will still feel ok up to a certain point and then the pedal will just go to the floor again (under heavy braking) I've currently got that on my vx220, boiled the brakes at curborough and for just driving around town the brakes are fine but if I have to emergency brake  I'd be opting to use the handbrake to try and stop in time

Although realistically a single hard emergency stop is going to be okay. I wouldn't advise using the handbrake on an FR car, though on a mid engined car the rear brakes do a lot more. I remember this happening to me on the touge in Japan in a GT86 hire car, I set the brakes on fire and the pedal went very wooden. But I just left it ten minutes to cool down and it was then fine after that.

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